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Large transport-air carrier was cleared for takeoff approximately 20 seconds behind heavy-air carrier on same runway. Operational error.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 100335 |
| Time | |
| Date | 198811 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : ord |
| State Reference | IL |
| Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
| Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff ground other : taxi |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 4 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff climbout : initial |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 23000 flight time type : 14000 |
| ASRS Report | 100335 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | government : faa |
| Function | controller : local |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Deviation other |
Narrative:
We were holding short of runway 27L at ord while a heavy took off. As heavy started his roll I punched the clock to verify distance behind heavy. We were cleared onto runway and cleared for takeoff after 20 seconds elapsed time behind heavy. I instructed first officer to ask for required distances behind heavy. Tower replied that in future we should instruct tower ahead of time if we wished more time (rather pertly). My question: isn't there a specified time of 1 min behind a heavy for an large transport? If so, why didn't we receive this automatically and why the pert remarks? I have had this happen before. Wind was down runway at 8 KTS. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following: discussed ATC procedure handbook requirements which are for 2 mins sep in this case, but pointed out to reporter that ord tower controller probably got 'pert' because he was trying to move a lot of traffic and was not too happy with the prospect of having reporter in large transport occupy the runway for another 1 1/2 mins. Reporter probably should have told tower that he would like the full 2 mins sep before he taxied onto the runway.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LGT-ACR WAS CLEARED FOR TKOF APPROX 20 SECONDS BEHIND HVY-ACR ON SAME RWY. OPERATIONAL ERROR.
Narrative: WE WERE HOLDING SHORT OF RWY 27L AT ORD WHILE A HVY TOOK OFF. AS HVY STARTED HIS ROLL I PUNCHED THE CLOCK TO VERIFY DISTANCE BEHIND HVY. WE WERE CLRED ONTO RWY AND CLRED FOR TKOF AFTER 20 SECS ELAPSED TIME BEHIND HVY. I INSTRUCTED F/O TO ASK FOR REQUIRED DISTANCES BEHIND HVY. TWR REPLIED THAT IN FUTURE WE SHOULD INSTRUCT TWR AHEAD OF TIME IF WE WISHED MORE TIME (RATHER PERTLY). MY QUESTION: ISN'T THERE A SPECIFIED TIME OF 1 MIN BEHIND A HVY FOR AN LGT? IF SO, WHY DIDN'T WE RECEIVE THIS AUTOMATICALLY AND WHY THE PERT REMARKS? I HAVE HAD THIS HAPPEN BEFORE. WIND WAS DOWN RWY AT 8 KTS. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING: DISCUSSED ATC PROC HANDBOOK REQUIREMENTS WHICH ARE FOR 2 MINS SEP IN THIS CASE, BUT POINTED OUT TO RPTR THAT ORD TWR CTLR PROBABLY GOT 'PERT' BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO MOVE A LOT OF TFC AND WAS NOT TOO HAPPY WITH THE PROSPECT OF HAVING RPTR IN LGT OCCUPY THE RWY FOR ANOTHER 1 1/2 MINS. RPTR PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE TOLD TWR THAT HE WOULD LIKE THE FULL 2 MINS SEP BEFORE HE TAXIED ONTO THE RWY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.