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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1008678 |
Time | |
Date | 201205 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801-2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | ELP.Airport |
State Reference | TX |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Large Transport Low Wing 2 Turbojet Eng |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Route In Use | STAR MOLLY 2 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Captain Pilot Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 240 Flight Crew Type 14450 |
Person 2 | |
Function | Pilot Not Flying First Officer |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 564 Flight Crew Type 7000 |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Airspace Violation All Types Deviation - Procedural Other / Unknown Deviation - Track / Heading All Types |
Narrative:
[We were] approaching el paso from the north-northwest. At 13;000 ft MSL; cleared to molly; thence elp. Approach control cleared us to molly; then the molly 2 RNAV arrival. As pilot not flying; I read it back; and observed the first officer select the molly 2 RNAV arrival; then go to the legs page. I see molly at the top of the first page; concurred; then the first officer executed. The first officer said we were cleared to descend via the arrival. I didn't remember that; so queried approach. They confirmed we were cleared to descend via the arrival. Before we initiated the descent from 13;000 ft; our current altitude; approach said; 'air carrier XXXX; heading 110.' the first officer selected 110 in the heading window; and selected 'heading select'. As we were no longer on the RNAV arrival; I asked approach control what altitude we were cleared to descend to. They replied; 'descend and maintain 6;000 ft.' we turned to heading 110; and began a descent to 6;000 ft. When we had initially switched to approach control and attempted to check in; they did not respond immediately. There were several other aircraft they were handling on the frequency; and it took two or three radio calls and maybe two minutes for them to acknowledge our checking in. When we arrived at the gate; the ground controller asked us to call. When I called; the controller asked initially; 'were you cleared to descend via the molly 2 arrival?' I said 'yes; but only after we verified the descend via clearance'. He then said; 'we saw your aircraft turn northeast after we gave you the clearance; that's why we gave you the vector; it was probably our mistake.' I was confused as to whether he had been concerned about our altitude or our lateral clearance; and asked him what this was about. He stated it was just the direction the aircraft initially turned that caused them to give a vector in lieu of the approach clearance and he wanted to verify what we understood. Better coordination between center and approach control. We were given no indication; either on our flight plan; or from center that we may expect an RNAV arrival. Approach control had initially offered an RNAV (GPS) approach to a runway; after a lengthy check-in process. We declined; of course. We were then; hastily; it seemed; to be given the RNAV arrival; which caused a short term heavy cockpit load.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ELP TRACON issued an air carrier the MOLLY 2 STAR which caused confusion for the crew and a conflict for ATC but was in accordance with a ZAB letter of agreement.
Narrative: [We were] approaching El Paso from the north-northwest. At 13;000 FT MSL; cleared to MOLLY; thence ELP. Approach Control cleared us to MOLLY; then the Molly 2 RNAV Arrival. As pilot not flying; I read it back; and observed the First Officer select the MOLLY 2 RNAV Arrival; then go to the LEGS page. I see MOLLY at the top of the first page; concurred; then the First Officer executed. The First Officer said we were cleared to descend via the arrival. I didn't remember that; so queried Approach. They confirmed we were cleared to descend via the arrival. Before we initiated the descent from 13;000 FT; our current altitude; Approach said; 'Air Carrier XXXX; heading 110.' The First Officer selected 110 in the heading window; and selected 'Heading select'. As we were no longer on the RNAV arrival; I asked Approach Control what altitude we were cleared to descend to. They replied; 'Descend and maintain 6;000 FT.' We turned to heading 110; and began a descent to 6;000 FT. When we had initially switched to Approach Control and attempted to check in; they did not respond immediately. There were several other aircraft they were handling on the frequency; and it took two or three radio calls and maybe two minutes for them to acknowledge our checking in. When we arrived at the gate; the Ground Controller asked us to call. When I called; the Controller asked initially; 'Were you cleared to descend via the MOLLY 2 Arrival?' I said 'yes; but only after we verified the descend via clearance'. He then said; 'We saw your aircraft turn northeast after we gave you the clearance; that's why we gave you the vector; it was probably our mistake.' I was confused as to whether he had been concerned about our altitude or our lateral clearance; and asked him what this was about. He stated it was just the direction the aircraft initially turned that caused them to give a vector in lieu of the approach clearance and he wanted to verify what we understood. Better coordination between Center and Approach Control. We were given no indication; either on our flight plan; or from Center that we may expect an RNAV arrival. Approach Control had initially offered an RNAV (GPS) approach to a runway; after a lengthy check-in process. We declined; of course. We were then; hastily; it seemed; to be given the RNAV arrival; which caused a short term heavy cockpit load.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2013 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.