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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1058243 |
Time | |
Date | 201212 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | PBI.Airport |
State Reference | FL |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | EMB ERJ 145 ER/LR |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Takeoff |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Component | |
Aircraft Component | FMS/FMC |
Person 1 | |
Function | Pilot Flying Captain |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy Flight Deck / Cabin / Aircraft Event Other / Unknown |
Narrative:
We received a pre departure clearance at the gate which included the tbird 1 RNAV departure. We were cleared for takeoff without hearing the words 'cleared for takeoff; runway 28R; RNAV to cryer' for example; instead we were just cleared for takeoff runway 28R. After contacting departure; the first officer asked whether he wanted us to RNAV to cryer to which the controller replied 'weren't you cleared for the tbird 1?' we said yes but had not been cleared via RNAV departure phraseology on takeoff that we expect to hear on an RNAV departure. The departure controller said if you receive a pre departure clearance with the RNAV departure stated in the clearance then you are expected to fly the RNAV departure without further clearance. The first officer told the controller that was the exact opposite of the instructions we have been told to expect and that is why we queried him. The controller then said we do hundreds of these a day and have never heard of such a thing. We decided to leave it at this point and both we and the departure controller said we would look into further. The departure controller said it's no big deal; fly direct to diapr and contact center. Because the track to cryed and runway heading were the same on this day and because there was no wind drift no deviation occurred. We received a new clearance prior to leaving the SID track. The reason for this report is confusion about phraseology and out expected clearance. The immediate threat was lack of standardized phraseology when conducting RNAV departures. At other airports where this standardized phraseology is used; atl and dfw for instance; we have come to expect those words in order to turn on course on an RNAV departure. The problem could have been avoided by taking a few extra seconds after we received our takeoff clearance by clarifying tower's expectations of what we were to fly. From this event; I have learned that we should not start a takeoff roll until both pilots and ATC are on the same page as to exactly where this plane is expected to be once airborne. If this had been an RNAV where a turn was required so soon after departure; we could have found ourselves in a very different situation. However; if a turn had been required soon after liftoff; as at atl and dfw; I believe we would have heard the words we were expecting; such as 'cleared for takeoff; runway xx; RNAV to cryer.' from this event; could we receive some clarification as to what to expect phraseology wise regarding RNAV departures and some standardization among ATC clearances? It can't be one way at one airport and completely different at another. Until the standardization happens; we can only continue to ask for clarification from ATC prior to beginning the takeoff.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: The flight crew of an EMB-145 believed ATC failed to provide a valid takeoff clearance from Runway 28R at PBI because the clearance did not restate the requirement to fly the TBIRD RNAV SID they had been assigned in their PDC delivered airways clearance.
Narrative: We received a PDC at the gate which included the TBIRD 1 RNAV Departure. We were cleared for takeoff without hearing the words 'Cleared for takeoff; Runway 28R; RNAV to CRYER' for example; instead we were just cleared for takeoff Runway 28R. After contacting Departure; the First Officer asked whether he wanted us to RNAV to CRYER to which the Controller replied 'weren't you cleared for the TBIRD 1?' We said yes but had not been cleared via RNAV departure phraseology on takeoff that we expect to hear on an RNAV departure. The Departure Controller said if you receive a PDC with the RNAV departure stated in the clearance then you are expected to fly the RNAV departure without further clearance. The First Officer told the Controller that was the exact opposite of the instructions we have been told to expect and that is why we queried him. The Controller then said we do hundreds of these a day and have never heard of such a thing. We decided to leave it at this point and both we and the Departure Controller said we would look into further. The departure controller said it's no big deal; fly direct to DIAPR and contact Center. Because the track to CRYED and runway heading were the same on this day and because there was no wind drift no deviation occurred. We received a new clearance prior to leaving the SID track. The reason for this report is confusion about phraseology and out expected clearance. The immediate threat was lack of standardized phraseology when conducting RNAV departures. At other airports where this standardized phraseology is used; ATL and DFW for instance; we have come to expect those words in order to turn on course on an RNAV departure. The problem could have been avoided by taking a few extra seconds after we received our takeoff clearance by clarifying Tower's expectations of what we were to fly. From this event; I have learned that we should not start a takeoff roll until both pilots and ATC are on the same page as to exactly where this plane is expected to be once airborne. If this had been an RNAV where a turn was required so soon after departure; we could have found ourselves in a very different situation. However; if a turn HAD been required soon after liftoff; as at ATL and DFW; I believe we would have heard the words we were expecting; such as 'cleared for takeoff; runway xx; RNAV to CRYER.' From this event; could we receive some clarification as to what to expect phraseology wise regarding RNAV departures and some standardization among ATC clearances? It can't be one way at one airport and completely different at another. Until the standardization happens; we can only continue to ask for clarification from ATC prior to beginning the takeoff.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2013 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.