Narrative:

I was contacted by aircraft B captain concerned with my takeoff at dfw which placed my aircraft a overhead his. He was holding short of runway 18L on taxiway 29. Tower issued takeoff clearance with heading of 185 degrees. Aircraft B also had 185 degree heading after takeoff. I briefed the takeoff to my crew explaining my turn would be inside B's turn to avoid vortex turbulence. His part of flight was discernable by the smoke trail he left. In making my turn to 185, I flew over B. I feel the altitude was 200-300'. He felt the turn was initiated too low and explained his company has an emergency min turn altitude of 100' and normal minimum turn altitude of 300'. My company has no such limits. Captain B is a safety rep and I am a line check captain with my company. All our discussion was informal and no complaints (FAA, company, etc) were filed. My purpose in this report is to pose the question: 'should we all have minimum turn commencement altitudes?' I've checked the aim and far's and company policy and asked the question of other lca's and cannot find the answer. I'll be bringing up this question at a standardization meeting. At most airports with large vol of departures, the request 'gimme a tight right to 220 degrees after takeoff' is very commonplace (especially ord). I feel most pilots actually enjoy the turn, but is it the safest way to operate? I think not. I use dfw at least 10 times per month and have had other aircraft overfly mine numerous times, so this problem is not uncommon. Many airports (atl for example) give a point at which to turn (airport boundary, middle marker, etc). I think this to be a good idea. I realize it is easy just to label the turn a judgement call and of course it is. But if one watches pilots making the quick turns near the surface to assist, one would have to have questions. My turn at dfw involved a 12 degree heading (15 degree bank) change and alarmed a professional pilot. He thought I had lost an engine. If a large export in a 30 degree bank with a 180 degree course reversal lost the low engine in the turn near the ground, would the pilot have used good judgement? Well, enough said.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: LGT LIFTED OFF DFW AND MADE AN ALMOST IMMEDIATE TURN PASSING OVER AN ACFT HOLDING SHORT OF THE RWY. CAPT OF HOLDING ACFT PROTESTED THE QUICK TURN AND PASSING OVER HIS ACFT AT LOW ALT.

Narrative: I WAS CONTACTED BY ACFT B CAPT CONCERNED WITH MY TKOF AT DFW WHICH PLACED MY ACFT A OVERHEAD HIS. HE WAS HOLDING SHORT OF RWY 18L ON TXWY 29. TWR ISSUED TKOF CLRNC WITH HDG OF 185 DEGS. ACFT B ALSO HAD 185 DEG HDG AFTER TKOF. I BRIEFED THE TKOF TO MY CREW EXPLAINING MY TURN WOULD BE INSIDE B'S TURN TO AVOID VORTEX TURB. HIS PART OF FLT WAS DISCERNABLE BY THE SMOKE TRAIL HE LEFT. IN MAKING MY TURN TO 185, I FLEW OVER B. I FEEL THE ALT WAS 200-300'. HE FELT THE TURN WAS INITIATED TOO LOW AND EXPLAINED HIS COMPANY HAS AN EMER MIN TURN ALT OF 100' AND NORMAL MINIMUM TURN ALT OF 300'. MY COMPANY HAS NO SUCH LIMITS. CAPT B IS A SAFETY REP AND I AM A LINE CHK CAPT WITH MY COMPANY. ALL OUR DISCUSSION WAS INFORMAL AND NO COMPLAINTS (FAA, COMPANY, ETC) WERE FILED. MY PURPOSE IN THIS RPT IS TO POSE THE QUESTION: 'SHOULD WE ALL HAVE MINIMUM TURN COMMENCEMENT ALTS?' I'VE CHKED THE AIM AND FAR'S AND COMPANY POLICY AND ASKED THE QUESTION OF OTHER LCA'S AND CANNOT FIND THE ANSWER. I'LL BE BRINGING UP THIS QUESTION AT A STANDARDIZATION MEETING. AT MOST ARPTS WITH LARGE VOL OF DEPS, THE REQUEST 'GIMME A TIGHT RIGHT TO 220 DEGS AFTER TKOF' IS VERY COMMONPLACE (ESPECIALLY ORD). I FEEL MOST PLTS ACTUALLY ENJOY THE TURN, BUT IS IT THE SAFEST WAY TO OPERATE? I THINK NOT. I USE DFW AT LEAST 10 TIMES PER MONTH AND HAVE HAD OTHER ACFT OVERFLY MINE NUMEROUS TIMES, SO THIS PROB IS NOT UNCOMMON. MANY ARPTS (ATL FOR EXAMPLE) GIVE A POINT AT WHICH TO TURN (ARPT BOUNDARY, MIDDLE MARKER, ETC). I THINK THIS TO BE A GOOD IDEA. I REALIZE IT IS EASY JUST TO LABEL THE TURN A JUDGEMENT CALL AND OF COURSE IT IS. BUT IF ONE WATCHES PLTS MAKING THE QUICK TURNS NEAR THE SURFACE TO ASSIST, ONE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE QUESTIONS. MY TURN AT DFW INVOLVED A 12 DEG HDG (15 DEG BANK) CHANGE AND ALARMED A PROFESSIONAL PLT. HE THOUGHT I HAD LOST AN ENG. IF A LARGE EXPORT IN A 30 DEG BANK WITH A 180 DEG COURSE REVERSAL LOST THE LOW ENG IN THE TURN NEAR THE GND, WOULD THE PLT HAVE USED GOOD JUDGEMENT? WELL, ENOUGH SAID.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.