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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1114505 |
Time | |
Date | 201309 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801-2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | PHX.Airport |
State Reference | AZ |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | B737-700 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Route In Use | STAR KOOLY4 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Pilot Flying Captain |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 150 |
Person 2 | |
Function | Pilot Not Flying First Officer |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 214 |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Altitude Crossing Restriction Not Met Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy Deviation - Procedural Clearance |
Narrative:
We descended according to ATC instructions to cross itemm on the kooly RNAV STAR at 280K/FL240. We were then handed over to ZAB and checked in. We were never cleared to 'descend via' the kooly RNAV arrival. We noticed that we were getting high on the descent profile should we get cleared to descend via; so we asked ATC if we should expect a descend via clearance. He then cleared us to fly the arrival landing 25L transition but to descend to cross squez at 12;000; which is more restrictive than the published 12000A 15000B. We interpreted that as he needed that altitude at squez and; since we were high to begin with due to them not descending us on time; we increased our descent rate; so as to arrive at 12;000 as soon as possible. He slowed us to 250 during the descent and then told us to 'comply with the arrival speeds after squez;' but also said we 'were not cleared to descend via the arrival' which made it impossible to comply with the previous clearance to cross squez at 12;000 and; thus; the assumption that the speeds on the arrival prior to squez were waved and we were to fly according to their clearance. We told him we wouldn't make squez at 12;000 so he turned us 30 degrees off course. He asked us our speed before slowing us and we told him we were 310 KTS; so as to make the descent and he asked us if the previous controller had given us relief from the published speed at itemm (280 KTS). We said no. I feel the center was absolutely negligent in how they issued clearances [requiring us] both to comply with and don't comply with altitudes; speeds; etc.; so that we were completely at a loss as we were trying to comply. I even told him exactly what we were doing; how the clearance was received; and finally asked him 'what do you want us to do?'ATC should either clear the flight to proceed via the STAR so both controller and crew know what to expect; or if they need to alter any portion of the arrival to suit their needs; then the published restrictions should be overridden by airspeed and altitude vectoring. When flight crews are given other than published altitude restrictions or route vectoring; then the published airspeeds should also be assigned by ATC; so that the burden of redirecting the arrival lies solely on the controller who is now giving clearances other than the published criteria the flight crew is expecting to fly. There should be a 'one way' policy to fly an arrival or SID; either via as published or; if needed for traffic flow; then as assigned by the controller. That way there will be no confusion by either the flight crew or controllers and it will reduce the workload on both. It will give better accountability for clearances given that require a departure from any published criteria.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: While flying but not 'cleared via' the KOOLY RNAV STAR to PHX the flight crew of a B737-700 was given ambiguous airspeed and altitude clearances with which they were unable to comply. The controller reprimanded them for not complying with speed restrictions even though he had altered the STAR altitude restrictions.
Narrative: We descended according to ATC instructions to cross ITEMM on the KOOLY RNAV STAR at 280K/FL240. We were then handed over to ZAB and checked in. We were never cleared to 'descend via' the KOOLY RNAV Arrival. We noticed that we were getting high on the descent profile should we get cleared to descend via; so we asked ATC if we should expect a descend via clearance. He then cleared us to fly the arrival landing 25L transition but to descend to cross SQUEZ at 12;000; which is more restrictive than the published 12000A 15000B. We interpreted that as he needed that altitude at SQUEZ and; since we were high to begin with due to them not descending us on time; we increased our descent rate; so as to arrive at 12;000 as soon as possible. He slowed us to 250 during the descent and then told us to 'comply with the arrival speeds after SQUEZ;' but also said we 'were NOT cleared to descend via the arrival' which made it impossible to comply with the previous clearance to cross SQUEZ at 12;000 and; thus; the assumption that the speeds on the arrival prior to SQUEZ were waved and we were to fly according to their clearance. We told him we wouldn't make SQUEZ at 12;000 so he turned us 30 degrees off course. He asked us our speed before slowing us and we told him we were 310 KTS; so as to make the descent and he asked us if the previous Controller had given us relief from the published speed at ITEMM (280 KTS). We said no. I feel the Center was absolutely negligent in how they issued clearances [requiring us] both to comply with and don't comply with altitudes; speeds; etc.; so that we were completely at a loss as we were trying to comply. I even told him exactly what we were doing; how the clearance was received; and finally asked him 'What do you want us to do?'ATC should either clear the flight to proceed via the STAR so both Controller and Crew know what to expect; or if they need to alter any portion of the arrival to suit their needs; then the published restrictions should be overridden by airspeed and altitude vectoring. When Flight Crews are given other than published altitude restrictions or route vectoring; then the published airspeeds should also be assigned by ATC; so that the burden of redirecting the arrival lies solely on the Controller who is now giving clearances other than the published criteria the Flight Crew is expecting to fly. There should be a 'one way' policy to fly an arrival or SID; either via as published or; if needed for traffic flow; then as assigned by the Controller. That way there will be no confusion by either the flight crew or Controllers and it will reduce the workload on both. It will give better accountability for clearances given that require a departure from any published criteria.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2013 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.