 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
When cleared 'direct to dufur (on the hhood RNAV STAR to pdx); descend pilot's discretion to FL250' the flight crew of an MD11 was later reprimanded by center for not complying with the STAR speed restriction to not exceed mach number/280K. The flight crew was not aware the restriction applied as they had never been cleared to 'descend via' the STAR.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 1125632 |
| Time | |
| Date | 201310 |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | ZSE.ARTCC |
| State Reference | WA |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Make Model Name | MD-11 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | Descent |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Function | Captain Pilot Flying |
| Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy Deviation - Speed All Types |
Narrative:
Approximately 600 NM from pdx ATC cleared us direct to dufur intersection. This intersection was on our flight plan and a fix associated with the hhood RNAV arrival to pdx. As we approached dufur ATC told us to expect the hhood arrival and then cleared us from FL380 to descend at pilots discretion to a lower altitude (I believe it was FL240 or 250). There is a speed restriction note on the arrival that states that '...aircraft descend via mach number until intercepting 280 KT. Maintain 280 KT until slowed by the STAR.' the FMS was in prof and FMS speed and we had programmed in 280 knots into the FMS. Our descent started well before dufur (probably in excess of 30 miles). Since dufur was the first fix we would cross that was associated with the arrival we had planned to comply with the speed restrictions at and after dufur. At this point in time were not yet on any segment of the STAR. Passing about FL320 or so we were still 20 to 30 miles from dufur and ATC asked us our speed (it was mach .82 and just coming up to about 295 KIAS) and then advised us that we were not complying with the speed restriction printed on the STAR. We immediately slowed to 280 KTS. After we slowed ATC mentioned that nearly every aircraft he had seen in the previous two weeks on that arrival had missed this speed restriction. I believe ATC caused this confusion. When we started our descent we were not yet on the arrival and in fact would not be on the arrival for several more miles. It would have been much better if ATC had stated the need for us to be on a mach/280KIAS profile at the top of our descent. Also; the fixes prior to dufur have these restriction stated on the chart but we were not cleared over any of those fixes and started the arrival at dufur. Had we joined the arrival at jotba or jerdt it would have been clear that the speed restriction applied from that point on.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: When cleared 'direct to DUFUR (on the HHOOD RNAV STAR to PDX); descend pilot's discretion to FL250' the flight crew of an MD11 was later reprimanded by Center for not complying with the STAR speed restriction to not exceed Mach number/280K. The flight crew was not aware the restriction applied as they had never been cleared to 'descend via' the STAR.
Narrative: Approximately 600 NM from PDX ATC cleared us direct to DUFUR Intersection. This intersection was on our flight plan and a fix associated with the HHOOD RNAV Arrival to PDX. As we approached DUFUR ATC told us to expect the HHOOD Arrival and then cleared us from FL380 to descend at pilots discretion to a lower altitude (I believe it was FL240 or 250). There is a speed restriction note on the arrival that states that '...aircraft descend via Mach number until intercepting 280 KT. Maintain 280 KT until slowed by the STAR.' The FMS was in PROF and FMS Speed and we had programmed in 280 knots into the FMS. Our descent started well before DUFUR (probably in excess of 30 miles). Since DUFUR was the first fix we would cross that was associated with the arrival we had planned to comply with the speed restrictions at and after DUFUR. At this point in time were not yet on any segment of the STAR. Passing about FL320 or so we were still 20 to 30 miles from DUFUR and ATC asked us our speed (it was mach .82 and just coming up to about 295 KIAS) and then advised us that we were not complying with the speed restriction printed on the STAR. We immediately slowed to 280 KTS. After we slowed ATC mentioned that nearly every aircraft he had seen in the previous two weeks on that arrival had missed this speed restriction. I believe ATC caused this confusion. When we started our descent we were not yet on the arrival and in fact would not be on the arrival for several more miles. It would have been much better if ATC had stated the need for us to be on a Mach/280KIAS profile at the top of our descent. Also; the fixes prior to DUFUR have these restriction stated on the chart but we were not cleared over any of those fixes and started the arrival at DUFUR. Had we joined the arrival at JOTBA or JERDT it would have been clear that the speed restriction applied from that point on.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2013 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.