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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 114193 |
Time | |
Date | 198906 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : mxe |
State Reference | PA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 12000 msl bound upper : 18000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | cruise other cruise other descent other |
Route In Use | enroute airway : zdc |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 114193 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Deviation Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
We were initially at 35,000 from bos to bwi. En route we were issued FL180. As we were leveling FL180, we received a clearance to slow to 250 KTS. After level at FL180 and still slowing to 250 KTS (about 7-10 mi north of mxe) the controller issued us 12,000. We acknowledged the descent and started out of 18,000. However, the rate of descent was slow due to the aircraft still slowing to 250 KTS. About 1 min later the controller questioned our descent. I informed him we started our descent as soon as we were issued it. The controller responded that 7 mi had passed and he thought our efforts were unreasonable (7 mi is no distance at all when you have 460 KTS of ground speed). Immediately following the confrontation with the controller, he issued a crossing restriction to cross 10 south of mxe at 12,000. (We were over mxe at time of issuance.) we acknowledged crossing restriction and descending through 16,000 the captain got on the frequency and informed the controller it would be difficult to make 10 south of mxe at 12,000 due to our slow speed. The controller would not respond even after our 2ND call. A frequency change was issued at 10 south of mxe as we were descending through 13,000' (1000' high). I acknowledged frequency change and questioned controller if he understood our comment about missing the crossing restriction. He affirmed he heard and understood. There seemed to be hostility or an attitude with this controller that prevented good communication. Also there seemed to be a lack of understanding of slow vs descent capabilities.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR EXPERIENCES LESS THAN SATISFACTORY ATC HANDLING FROM ARTCC RADAR CTLR IN DESCENT.
Narrative: WE WERE INITIALLY AT 35,000 FROM BOS TO BWI. ENRTE WE WERE ISSUED FL180. AS WE WERE LEVELING FL180, WE RECEIVED A CLRNC TO SLOW TO 250 KTS. AFTER LEVEL AT FL180 AND STILL SLOWING TO 250 KTS (ABOUT 7-10 MI N OF MXE) THE CTLR ISSUED US 12,000. WE ACKNOWLEDGED THE DSCNT AND STARTED OUT OF 18,000. HOWEVER, THE RATE OF DSCNT WAS SLOW DUE TO THE ACFT STILL SLOWING TO 250 KTS. ABOUT 1 MIN LATER THE CTLR QUESTIONED OUR DSCNT. I INFORMED HIM WE STARTED OUR DSCNT AS SOON AS WE WERE ISSUED IT. THE CTLR RESPONDED THAT 7 MI HAD PASSED AND HE THOUGHT OUR EFFORTS WERE UNREASONABLE (7 MI IS NO DISTANCE AT ALL WHEN YOU HAVE 460 KTS OF GND SPEED). IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE CONFRONTATION WITH THE CTLR, HE ISSUED A XING RESTRICTION TO CROSS 10 S OF MXE AT 12,000. (WE WERE OVER MXE AT TIME OF ISSUANCE.) WE ACKNOWLEDGED XING RESTRICTION AND DESCENDING THROUGH 16,000 THE CAPT GOT ON THE FREQ AND INFORMED THE CTLR IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO MAKE 10 S OF MXE AT 12,000 DUE TO OUR SLOW SPEED. THE CTLR WOULD NOT RESPOND EVEN AFTER OUR 2ND CALL. A FREQ CHANGE WAS ISSUED AT 10 S OF MXE AS WE WERE DESCENDING THROUGH 13,000' (1000' HIGH). I ACKNOWLEDGED FREQ CHANGE AND QUESTIONED CTLR IF HE UNDERSTOOD OUR COMMENT ABOUT MISSING THE XING RESTRICTION. HE AFFIRMED HE HEARD AND UNDERSTOOD. THERE SEEMED TO BE HOSTILITY OR AN ATTITUDE WITH THIS CTLR THAT PREVENTED GOOD COM. ALSO THERE SEEMED TO BE A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF SLOW VS DSCNT CAPABILITIES.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.