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A verbal dustup resulted between dispatchers and the flight crew of a B767 conducting a newly developed and authorized ETOPS compliant flight departing from an east coast south american station and crossing over the andes mountains enroute to its destination in the continental united states. The debate addressed 180 vice 120 minute ETOPS and the selection of alternates appropriate for each. In addition they addressed the need to utilize enroute ETOPS alternates that do not require possible single engine flight across the andes.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 1166125 |
| Time | |
| Date | 201404 |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801-2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | ZZZZ.Airport |
| State Reference | FO |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Make Model Name | B767 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | Taxi |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Function | Captain Pilot Flying |
| Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
| Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 210 Flight Crew Total 17000 Flight Crew Type 10000 |
| Person 2 | |
| Function | Dispatcher |
| Qualification | Dispatch Dispatcher |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | Deviation - Procedural FAR Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy |
Narrative:
We received a new release as we powered up for takeoff with a new ETOPS alternate. After departure dispatch advised new alternate not legal due to 180 minute ETOPS. He claims south american ops require 120 minute ETOPS vs. The 180 he gave us. Eventually was able to give us another alternate to fill the void by his proclaimed 120 south american rule. We could not verify this restriction of 120 in any of our manuals. Also he gave us an alternate that was on the east side of the andes requiring us to cross high terrain to get to the alternate without a prescribed tcp route. We questioned this logic and dispatch eventually gave us another alternate in chile that would not require crossing high terrain. Additionally the tcp given for our route of flight does not seem legal. On UA306 the MEA is 26;000 grid mora 25;100 while the procedure requires us to descend to 20;000. There is not even a low airway available in that area due to high terrain also dispatch has been giving us ETOPS alternates on east side of andes that would require a crossing during an emergency!! There are numerous aerodromes on the chile coast that should be used for these alternates. We have charts for scse and scfa but need charts for santiago (scel); arica (scar); and iquiqe (scda).
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A verbal dustup resulted between dispatchers and the flight crew of a B767 conducting a newly developed and authorized ETOPS compliant flight departing from an east coast South American station and crossing over the Andes mountains enroute to its destination in the Continental United States. The debate addressed 180 vice 120 minute ETOPS and the selection of alternates appropriate for each. In addition they addressed the need to utilize enroute ETOPS alternates that do not require possible single engine flight across the Andes.
Narrative: We received a new release as we powered up for takeoff with a new ETOPS alternate. After departure Dispatch advised new alternate not legal due to 180 minute ETOPS. He claims South American ops require 120 minute ETOPS vs. the 180 he gave us. Eventually was able to give us another alternate to fill the void by his proclaimed 120 South American rule. We could not verify this restriction of 120 in any of our manuals. Also he gave us an alternate that was on the east side of the Andes requiring us to cross high terrain to get to the alternate without a prescribed TCP route. We questioned this logic and Dispatch eventually gave us another alternate in Chile that would not require crossing high terrain. Additionally the TCP given for our route of flight does not seem legal. On UA306 the MEA is 26;000 grid MORA 25;100 while the procedure requires us to descend to 20;000. There is not even a low airway available in that area due to high terrain also Dispatch has been giving us ETOPS alternates on east side of Andes that would require a crossing during an emergency!! There are numerous aerodromes on the Chile coast that should be used for these alternates. We have charts for SCSE and SCFA but need charts for Santiago (SCEL); Arica (SCAR); and Iquiqe (SCDA).
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.