Narrative:

Let us once again discuss the lake elsinore jump zone (hereby referred to as: lejz). Aircraft X departed sna on the MUSEL6.trm departure; which goes directly through the lejz. Aircraft X checks in; I initially climb him to 150 but then amend back to 130 for a faster airliner behind to climb above. So after a minimum of two communications with aircraft X; he then goes NORDO and as he approaches the lejz; I attempt to turn aircraft X [runway] 15R however he does not respond. I tried numerous times; changing frequency sites numerous times. I attempted a climb and turn in the blind broadcast; asking for acknowledgment with an ident. No observed ident/climb/turn. I called socal TRACON; hemet sector (who talks to the jump aircraft at 140) and let her know that I attempted to move aircraft X but he's NORDO at 130. She advised she should let the jump aircraft know. I observed the limited data block for the jump aircraft climbing out of 115 in the close vicinity of aircraft X; who was still NORDO at 130. I called shore; the socal sector who had handed aircraft X off to me previously; to see if aircraft X was on his frequency. He was not. I observed the jump aircraft limited [data block] stop his climb and turn away; then aircraft X returns to my frequency with a radio check. I did not say anything to him other than to issue a climb; since at that point he was clear of the lejz. The controller sitting next to me at R21 observed the situation and afterward had told me that earlier today; he was working R12 and had a departure from shore (climbing to 130); which they never shipped to him; get quite close to a VFR jump aircraft code at 140 (which hemet never pointed out to him). All this happens in ZLA's airspace yet we have no control on what the VFR jump aircraft does; how long they are there; when the other socal sector will ship us sna departures; etc. Apparently; there is no in-house communication between socal shore sector and socal hemet sector regarding these jump operations since it takes place in a shelf that is ZLA's airspace 120 and above. Even if there were changes made to both the sna SID's (musel and strel) to include a bend around the lejz on the way to trm; there is still no way to be sure of what the VFR jump aircraft will do. Case in point is the perris valley jump zone; a few miles north of the lejz. Hemet owns that airspace up to 140; ZLA owns 150 and above. Ont departures are shipped to ZLA climbing to 140; the very altitude the aircraft drop their jumpers. Hemet rarely calls with a point-out on these VFR jump aircraft since they technically do not require one as it is their airspace. But even with an active jump aircraft in the air orbiting; they will routinely ship the ont departures to sector 12 out of 080 for 120; with no guarantee of separation other than the blind faith that hemet is advising the VFR jump aircraft about the departure. What I have pieced together from socal controllers and ont pilots is that hemet tells the VFR jump aircraft to stay 'north of the airway' and calls traffic to the airliner when they're climbing out of 040 to 140; then ship them to ZLA out of 080. You're guess is as good as mine. Route the sids around both jump zones and we still have no control of the path of the VFR aircraft (who are much more comfortable getting close to an airliner than the airliner pilots are). Make ZLA talk to the VFR jump aircraft every time and traffic workload for both hemet and sector 12 would sky-rocket; delays would be commonplace for the jump zone companies and nobody will win. I doubt you can limit the VFR jump aircraft to a lower altitude for obvious reasons. We are all fed up with these jump zone aircraft. This has been an unsafe situation for years and only now with these reports has it come into the spotlight.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ZLA controller describes an unsafe situation with traffic around a jump site that is NORDO; causing his workload to increase.

Narrative: Let us once again discuss the Lake Elsinore Jump Zone (hereby referred to as: LEJZ). Aircraft X departed SNA on the MUSEL6.TRM departure; which goes directly through the LEJZ. Aircraft X checks in; I initially climb him to 150 but then amend back to 130 for a faster airliner behind to climb above. So after a minimum of two communications with Aircraft X; he then goes NORDO and as he approaches the LEJZ; I attempt to turn Aircraft X [Runway] 15R however he does not respond. I tried numerous times; changing frequency sites numerous times. I attempted a climb and turn in the blind broadcast; asking for acknowledgment with an ident. No observed ident/climb/turn. I called SoCal TRACON; Hemet Sector (who talks to the jump aircraft at 140) and let her know that I attempted to move Aircraft X but he's NORDO at 130. She advised she should let the jump aircraft know. I observed the limited data block for the jump aircraft climbing out of 115 in the close vicinity of Aircraft X; who was still NORDO at 130. I called Shore; the SoCal Sector who had handed Aircraft X off to me previously; to see if Aircraft X was on his frequency. He was not. I observed the jump aircraft limited [data block] stop his climb and turn away; then Aircraft X returns to my frequency with a radio check. I did not say anything to him other than to issue a climb; since at that point he was clear of the LEJZ. The Controller sitting next to me at R21 observed the situation and afterward had told me that earlier today; he was working R12 and had a departure from Shore (climbing to 130); which they never shipped to him; get quite close to a VFR jump aircraft code at 140 (which Hemet never pointed out to him). All this happens in ZLA's airspace yet we have no control on what the VFR jump aircraft does; how long they are there; when the OTHER SoCal Sector will ship us SNA departures; etc. Apparently; there is no in-house communication between SoCal Shore Sector and SoCal Hemet Sector regarding these jump operations since it takes place in a shelf that is ZLA's airspace 120 and above. Even if there were changes made to both the SNA SID's (MUSEL and STREL) to include a bend around the LEJZ on the way to TRM; there is still no way to be sure of what the VFR jump aircraft will do. Case in point is the Perris Valley Jump Zone; a few miles north of the LEJZ. Hemet owns that airspace up to 140; ZLA owns 150 and above. ONT departures are shipped to ZLA climbing to 140; the very altitude the aircraft drop their jumpers. Hemet rarely calls with a point-out on these VFR jump aircraft since they technically do not require one as it is their airspace. But even with an active jump aircraft in the air orbiting; they will routinely ship the ONT departures to Sector 12 out of 080 for 120; with no guarantee of separation other than the blind faith that Hemet is advising the VFR jump aircraft about the departure. What I have pieced together from SoCal controllers and ONT pilots is that Hemet tells the VFR jump aircraft to stay 'north of the airway' and calls traffic to the airliner when they're climbing out of 040 to 140; then ship them to ZLA out of 080. You're guess is as good as mine. Route the SIDs around both jump zones and we still have no control of the path of the VFR aircraft (who are much more comfortable getting close to an airliner than the airliner pilots are). Make ZLA talk to the VFR jump aircraft every time and traffic workload for both Hemet and Sector 12 would sky-rocket; delays would be commonplace for the jump zone companies and nobody will win. I doubt you can limit the VFR jump aircraft to a lower altitude for obvious reasons. We are all fed up with these jump zone aircraft. This has been an unsafe situation for years and only now with these reports has it come into the spotlight.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.