37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1193200 |
Time | |
Date | 201408 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | LAX.Airport |
State Reference | CA |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Light Transport Low Wing 2 Turbojet Eng |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 135 |
Flight Phase | Taxi |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Captain |
Qualification | Flight Crew Multiengine Flight Crew Instrument Flight Crew Flight Instructor Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 180 Flight Crew Total 5100 Flight Crew Type 500 |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy Deviation - Procedural Clearance |
Narrative:
We were issued taxi instructions by lax ground which was confusing and potentially hazardous. We were taxiing from the FBO ramp. We were told by ATC; 'taxi to [runway] 25L via a; hold short of F'. Once holding short of F on a; ATC told us to cross [runway] 25L; hold short of [runway] 25R. A short time later we were told to cross [runway] 25R; taxi to [runway] 25R full length for departure.I felt the situation was confusing and potentially hazardous since the first runway generally given by ground control is the departure runway: (per the aim section 4-3-18 a.6). At lax; however; ground initially told us [runway] 25L even though apparently we were meant to depart from [runway] 25R. A more appropriate initial ground instruction would have been; 'runway 25R; taxi via a; hold short of F'. I bring this up because the RNAV SID departures from lax are runway-dependent; and getting a last-minute runway change by ATC means having the first officer's head down and reprogramming the FMS. I believe a safer and smoother south.O.P. For lax ground would be to mention the actual departure runway in the initial taxi instructions. Assigning us only the first runway which we will encounter on our taxi route (and neglecting to assign us the planned departure runway until later) unnecessarily 'strings us along'.alternately; if lax ground has concerns about confusing instructions (perhaps due to the large number of english-as-second-language pilots) they should have omitted [runway] 25L from the start of our initial taxi instructions (see aim 4-3-18 a.6 and a.7). Telling us initially to 'taxi east on a; hold short of F' would not have given us the false impression that we were to depart from [runway] 25L.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: Pilot reported a problem at LAX where initial clearance was given to Runway 25L. Pilot was then instructed to taxi across Runway 25L and turn right; then taxi full length to Runway 25R. Pilot's problem was they were expecting a departure from Runway 25L and had to program aircraft now for departure off of Runway 25R.
Narrative: We were issued taxi instructions by LAX Ground which was confusing and potentially hazardous. We were taxiing from the FBO ramp. We were told by ATC; 'Taxi to [Runway] 25L via A; hold short of F'. Once holding short of F on A; ATC told us to cross [Runway] 25L; hold short of [Runway] 25R. A short time later we were told to cross [Runway] 25R; taxi to [Runway] 25R full length for departure.I felt the situation was confusing and potentially hazardous since the first runway generally given by Ground Control is the departure runway: (Per the AIM section 4-3-18 a.6). At LAX; however; Ground initially told us [Runway] 25L even though apparently we were meant to depart from [Runway] 25R. A more appropriate initial Ground instruction would have been; 'Runway 25R; taxi via A; hold short of F'. I bring this up because the RNAV SID departures from LAX are runway-dependent; and getting a last-minute runway change by ATC means having the First Officer's head down and reprogramming the FMS. I believe a safer and smoother S.O.P. for LAX Ground would be to mention the actual departure runway in the initial taxi instructions. Assigning us only the first runway which we will encounter on our taxi route (and neglecting to assign us the planned departure runway until later) unnecessarily 'strings us along'.Alternately; if LAX Ground has concerns about confusing instructions (perhaps due to the large number of English-as-Second-Language pilots) they should have omitted [Runway] 25L from the start of our initial taxi instructions (See AIM 4-3-18 a.6 and a.7). Telling us initially to 'Taxi East on A; hold short of F' would not have given us the false impression that we were to depart from [Runway] 25L.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.