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A B737-700 flight crew submitted a report echoing a number of others addressing the failure of ATC to provide the necessary information to conduct a descend via clearance when the necessary 'bottom altitude' for doing so exists only on the routing to the runway subsequent to the last 'common point' of the STAR itself.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 1195631 |
| Time | |
| Date | 201408 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | ZHU.ARTCC |
| State Reference | TX |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Make Model Name | B737-700 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | Descent |
| Route In Use | STAR KIDDZ 1 |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Component | |
| Aircraft Component | FMS/FMC |
| Person 1 | |
| Function | First Officer |
| Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 228 Flight Crew Type 5000 |
| Person 2 | |
| Function | Captain |
| Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 234 Flight Crew Type 14000 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy |
Narrative:
Houston center issued a descend via clearance on the kiddz 1 arrival but gave no runway transition assignment. When we asked [which runway to anticipate]; the controller stated that he did not know which one they wanted downline. The routing changes with the specific runway transition. How do you fly this procedure with an incomplete/unclear clearance? This has happened several times coming in to hou. We saw this same scenario going into dca yesterday. On that arrival (freedom) the altitudes are different depending on the transition. Again; center assigned no transition when they issued the descend via clearance. We were told we would get it downline. How are we supposed to set up the FMS and fly that arrival? Our entire procedure of programming and verifying at altitude is undone. This is an unsafe practice; hence our fom procedures. Please advise.ATC should only assign a descend via with the appropriate runway transition or they should modify the clearance to some different fix/altitude limit.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B737-700 flight crew submitted a report echoing a number of others addressing the failure of ATC to provide the necessary information to conduct a descend via clearance when the necessary 'bottom altitude' for doing so exists only on the routing to the runway subsequent to the last 'common point' of the STAR itself.
Narrative: Houston Center issued a Descend Via clearance on the KIDDZ 1 Arrival but gave no runway transition assignment. When we asked [which runway to anticipate]; the Controller stated that he did not know which one they wanted downline. The routing changes with the specific runway transition. How do you fly this procedure with an incomplete/unclear clearance? This has happened several times coming in to HOU. We saw this same scenario going into DCA yesterday. On that arrival (FREEDOM) the altitudes are different depending on the transition. Again; Center assigned no transition when they issued the Descend Via clearance. We were told we would get it downline. How are we supposed to set up the FMS and fly that arrival? Our entire procedure of programming and verifying at altitude is undone. This is an unsafe practice; hence our FOM procedures. Please advise.ATC should only assign a Descend Via with the appropriate runway transition or they should modify the clearance to some different fix/altitude limit.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.