37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1223113 |
Time | |
Date | 201411 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | ATL.Airport |
State Reference | GA |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | B717 (Formerly MD-95) |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Takeoff |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | First Officer |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 200 Flight Crew Total 9500 Flight Crew Type 5000 |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types |
Narrative:
I am deeply concerned by the new procedures in place at atl that allow for immediate takeoff behind a B757. Tower controllers are pressuring crews to takeoff immediately behind B757s in all visual conditions; including the most hazardous - light quartering tailwinds. A few weeks back; I heard a controller admonish a crew that balked at the immediate clearance with a 'that's our new procedure' when they expressed concern about the wisdom of the departure. Recently; we were cleared to go behind a 767 (not 757) without a 'caution wake turbulence' warning; or with adequate separation. We refused the clearance. Would this have happened if the 757 was still properly classified? I don't think so - controllers are human; and a 767 looks like a 757 from a distance. On multiple occasions; we have had wake encounters with 757s on departure following this new procedure - minor deviations; but deviations nonetheless.I wonder what about atl makes it immune from the physics that govern wake turbulence behavior everywhere else on the planet earth. Cynically; I am thinking that someone in washington needed to show an increase in runway capacity; and putting crews and passengers in harm's way by ignoring wake turbulence was an easy way to do it.if we were limiting this idiocy to periods of moderate crosswind; I would be less concerned; but it is not. Furthermore; field conditions are often markedly different from those at a few hundred feet. It is not uncommon to takeoff in calm winds and immediately enter into a quartering tailwind.....and right into a lingering and powerful vortex.I urge the FAA to abandon this unsafe practice before it hurts someone.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B717 First Officer expressed concern that the new in-trail procedures in place in ATL could lead to unsafe wake vortex encounters for departing aircraft.
Narrative: I am deeply concerned by the new procedures in place at ATL that allow for immediate takeoff behind a B757. Tower controllers are pressuring crews to takeoff immediately behind B757s in all visual conditions; including the most hazardous - light quartering tailwinds. A few weeks back; I heard a controller admonish a crew that balked at the immediate clearance with a 'that's our new procedure' when they expressed concern about the wisdom of the departure. Recently; we were cleared to go behind a 767 (not 757) without a 'caution wake turbulence' warning; or with adequate separation. We refused the clearance. Would this have happened if the 757 was still properly classified? I don't think so - controllers are human; and a 767 looks like a 757 from a distance. On multiple occasions; we have had wake encounters with 757s on departure following this new procedure - minor deviations; but deviations nonetheless.I wonder what about ATL makes it immune from the physics that govern wake turbulence behavior everywhere else on the planet earth. Cynically; I am thinking that someone in Washington needed to show an increase in runway capacity; and putting crews and passengers in harm's way by ignoring wake turbulence was an easy way to do it.If we were limiting this idiocy to periods of moderate crosswind; I would be less concerned; but it is not. Furthermore; field conditions are often markedly different from those at a few hundred feet. It is not uncommon to takeoff in calm winds and immediately enter into a quartering tailwind.....and right into a lingering and powerful vortex.I urge the FAA to abandon this unsafe practice before it hurts someone.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.