Flight crew of air carrier widebody transport given descent to 4000' while being vectored for approach at ord, and later told that their descent clearance was only to 7000'.

Home

Browse by month

Random

Latest

About

Contact

Attributes
ACN	122450
Time
Date	198909
Day	Tue
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : ord
State Reference	IL
Altitude	msl bound lower : 6500 msl bound upper : 7000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : ord
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng
Navigation In Use	Other
Flight Phase	cruise other descent other
Route In Use	enroute : on vectors
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 75 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 180
ASRS Report	122450
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : second officer
Qualification	pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : commercial
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 4000 flight time type : 1200
ASRS Report	122471
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

While acting as captain, approaching ord at 10000' at plano intersection, we were given a vector and descent clearance to what we understood to be 4000'. All crewmen heard 4000' and 4000' was read back. No correction was given. Upon passing 6500', ATC questioned our descent and stated that the descent altitude was 7000' instead of 4000'. Further descent to 6000' was given at this time and the approach continued uneventfully. To state the obvious, we need immediate relief in the communication area. Everybody is blocking everybody else. Readbacks are ignored or covered up. Too many aircraft on 1 frequency leads to chaos during peak traffic conditions. I strongly recommend that action be taken to correct this potentially hazardous situation. Supplemental information from acn 122471: these guys in chicago think they have to talk as fast as they can. Even the ATIS is read so fast you have to listen to it 3 times. Are they trying to impress someone? When are we going to force them to slow down. Plus, they don't listen to readbacks.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: FLT CREW OF ACR WDB GIVEN DESCENT TO 4000' WHILE BEING VECTORED FOR APCH AT ORD, AND LATER TOLD THAT THEIR DESCENT CLRNC WAS ONLY TO 7000'.

Narrative: WHILE ACTING AS CAPT, APCHING ORD AT 10000' AT PLANO INTXN, WE WERE GIVEN A VECTOR AND DSCNT CLRNC TO WHAT WE UNDERSTOOD TO BE 4000'. ALL CREWMEN HEARD 4000' AND 4000' WAS READ BACK. NO CORRECTION WAS GIVEN. UPON PASSING 6500', ATC QUESTIONED OUR DSCNT AND STATED THAT THE DSCNT ALT WAS 7000' INSTEAD OF 4000'. FURTHER DSCNT TO 6000' WAS GIVEN AT THIS TIME AND THE APCH CONTINUED UNEVENTFULLY. TO STATE THE OBVIOUS, WE NEED IMMEDIATE RELIEF IN THE COM AREA. EVERYBODY IS BLOCKING EVERYBODY ELSE. READBACKS ARE IGNORED OR COVERED UP. TOO MANY ACFT ON 1 FREQ LEADS TO CHAOS DURING PEAK TFC CONDITIONS. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT ACTION BE TAKEN TO CORRECT THIS POTENTIALLY HAZARDOUS SITUATION. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 122471: THESE GUYS IN CHICAGO THINK THEY HAVE TO TALK AS FAST AS THEY CAN. EVEN THE ATIS IS READ SO FAST YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO IT 3 TIMES. ARE THEY TRYING TO IMPRESS SOMEONE? WHEN ARE WE GOING TO FORCE THEM TO SLOW DOWN. PLUS, THEY DON'T LISTEN TO READBACKS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.