ZNY oceanic controller describes the lack of understanding in the area as to whether he/she can use ...

Narrative:

Aircraft X; FL360; northbound L455; assigned speed M078; in trail same route approx. 12 minutes behind aircraft Y; FL360; also assigned M078. Pilot estimates going into radar indicated separation of 10 minutes no conflict in Ocean21. Ocean21 receives a radar hit on aircraft X and changes the okonu estimate by 3 minutes on the late side. XX03z is now XX06z. Ocean21 provides an alert indicating loss of separation with aircraft Y. 9 minutes and some seconds. I reduce aircraft Y to m076 and apply reduce separation flags for the rule of 11. I also confirm with aircraft X; pilot estimate for okonu. Pilot estimate was confirmed XX03z. Did we lose 3 minutes or not; but wait I have a radar target; can I discontinue oceanic separation standards? But wait both of them are radar targets now. Do I still need oceanic separation standards? This is a problem. I advised the supervisor. Either the radar data is wrong or the pilot is giving a bad conformation or the wind data that the radar is using is wrong either way it's unacceptable! Mixed environments don't work; unless you cover it with standard operating procedures. Someone decided to turn all this radar on in OCEAN21 to enhance the overall product; without regards to the issue's controllers would be faced with. Turn it on we were told; no effects on your current operation. Bs. The number of erroneous messages we deal with now is totally wrong. The display is now very cluttered with junk; etc. I could list all the problems; but have chosen just to complain about it. Besides; showing a controller a radar target in oceanic airspace; there is nothing that prevents us from using this radar for vectoring; since it's already impacting separation and updating Ocean21 profiles. It's just like eram; just turn it on; we will work out procedures later. Why do we do this? Finish the job! Please.there's many!

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ZNY Oceanic Controller describes the lack of understanding in the area as to whether he/she can use the radar for separation or if they have to use non-radar procedures.

Narrative: Aircraft X; FL360; NORTHBOUND L455; Assigned speed M078; in trail same route approx. 12 minutes behind Aircraft Y; FL360; also Assigned M078. Pilot estimates going into radar indicated separation of 10 minutes no conflict in Ocean21. Ocean21 receives a radar hit on Aircraft X and changes the OKONU estimate by 3 minutes on the late side. XX03z is now XX06z. Ocean21 provides an alert indicating loss of separation with Aircraft Y. 9 Minutes and some seconds. I reduce Aircraft Y to m076 and apply reduce separation flags for the rule of 11. I also confirm with Aircraft X; pilot estimate for OKONU. Pilot estimate was confirmed XX03z. Did we lose 3 minutes or not; but wait I have a radar target; can I discontinue oceanic separation standards? But wait both of them are radar targets now. Do I still need Oceanic separation standards? This is a problem. I advised the supervisor. Either the radar data is wrong or the pilot is giving a bad conformation or the wind data that the radar is using is wrong either way it's unacceptable! Mixed environments don't work; unless you cover it with standard operating procedures. Someone decided to turn all this radar on in OCEAN21 to enhance the overall product; without regards to the issue's controllers would be faced with. Turn it on we were told; no effects on your current operation. BS. The number of erroneous messages we deal with now is totally wrong. The display is now very cluttered with junk; etc. I could list all the problems; but have chosen just to complain about it. Besides; showing a controller a radar target in oceanic airspace; there is nothing that prevents us from using this radar for vectoring; since it's already impacting separation and updating Ocean21 profiles. It's just like ERAM; just turn it on; we will work out procedures later. Why do we do this? Finish the job! Please.There's many!

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Attributes
ACN	1226447
Time
Date	201412
Local Time Of Day	1201-1800
Place
Locale Reference	ZNY.ARTCC
State Reference	NY
Environment
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Make Model Name	Large Transport
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	Cruise
Route In Use	Oceanic
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Make Model Name	Large Transport
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	Cruise
Route In Use	Oceanic
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Function	Oceanic Enroute
Qualification	Air Traffic Control Fully Certified
Experience	Air Traffic Control Time Certified In Pos 1 (yrs) 29
Events
Anomaly	ATC Issue All Types Conflict Airborne Conflict Deviation - Procedural Clearance Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy

ZNY oceanic controller describes the lack of understanding in the area as to whether he/she can use the radar for separation or if they have to use non-radar procedures.