37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1236649 |
Time | |
Date | 201502 |
Local Time Of Day | 0601-1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | MKE.TRACON |
State Reference | WI |
Environment | |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Medium Transport Low Wing 2 Turbojet Eng |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Climb |
Route In Use | SID UECKR 1 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | First Officer Pilot Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Altitude Crossing Restriction Not Met Deviation - Procedural Clearance Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy |
Narrative:
We departed mke and were assigned the ueckr 1 departure. The first fix is prfec and is an 'expect to cross at 8;000 feet.' we were already assigned 8;000 feet when we were cleared direct to prfec but were not told to cross prfec at 8;000. A few moments later ATC assigned us to; 'climb via the SID except maintain 13;000.' the rest of the fixes on the SID were; 'at or above'. When we were given this clearance we had not reached prfec yet and I started a climb to 13;000. The captain and pilot observing; asked me a few minutes later if I thought we should have crossed prfec at 8000; as we were assigned to climb via SID. I thought that when a fix says; 'expect' it's not mandatory even in a climb via or descend via unless ATC specifically states that is what they want. I am not sure if this is correct and cannot find any information specifically addressing this question. It is usually not an issue but in this situation we were unsure as a flight crew on what the correct thing to do was. ATC never queried us; however we thought it would be good to file a report just in case.query ATC if unsure on the instructions.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CRJ-200 crew depart MKE on the UECKR 1 departure. Initial altitude was to climb to 8;000. Controller told pilots to 'Climb via the SID except maintain 13;000.' Pilots questioned each other if they were to cross PRFEC at 8;000 and continue via the SID. Aircraft was not at PRFEC yet.
Narrative: We departed MKE and were assigned the UECKR 1 departure. The first fix is PRFEC and is an 'Expect to cross at 8;000 feet.' We were already assigned 8;000 feet when we were cleared direct to PRFEC but were not told to cross PRFEC at 8;000. A few moments later ATC assigned us to; 'Climb via the SID except maintain 13;000.' The rest of the fixes on the SID were; 'At or above'. When we were given this clearance we had not reached PRFEC yet and I started a climb to 13;000. The Captain and pilot observing; asked me a few minutes later if I thought we should have crossed PRFEC at 8000; as we were assigned to climb via SID. I thought that when a fix says; 'Expect' it's not mandatory even in a climb via or descend via unless ATC specifically states that is what they want. I am not sure if this is correct and cannot find any information specifically addressing this question. It is usually not an issue but in this situation we were unsure as a flight crew on what the correct thing to do was. ATC never queried us; however we thought it would be good to file a report just in case.Query ATC if unsure on the instructions.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.