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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1251817 |
Time | |
Date | 201504 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | RKRR.ARTCC |
State Reference | FO |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Route In Use | Vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Captain Pilot Not Flying |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 60 Flight Crew Total 13000 Flight Crew Type 60 |
Person 2 | |
Function | First Officer Pilot Flying |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 108 Flight Crew Total 12000 Flight Crew Type 5554 |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Procedural Clearance Deviation - Track / Heading All Types Inflight Event / Encounter Weather / Turbulence |
Narrative:
We were enroute to icn. There were thunderstorms in the icn area and surrounding areas and the ATIS was reporting crosswinds from approximately 24 knots gusting to 36 knots initially. The seoul/incheon controllers told us that we were number 11 for the approach; then number 15. They were giving us delay vectors. These vectors were typically turns directly into the weather and we told them that we would need a turn in the other direction to remain clear of the thunderstorms. The next vector would typically be toward the storm again and we would once again tell them that we need a turn in the other direction away from the weather. When we were on a downwind vector for runway 15L into icn; the downwind vector was going to take us directly into solid red on the radar (along with lightning in the cumulonimbus clouds ahead of us). We told them that we needed an early right turn to base. They gave us the right turn to base. In icn; this also puts you on a heading for the north korean border. We used the yju 270 radial as a general reference for the border. When we were about to turn final; the winds at the airport were a direct crosswind of approximately 30 gusting to 46; which is beyond our limits. In addition; ATC said that a previous aircraft reported a loss of 30 knots of airspeed at 1;000 feet above the ground. We told ATC we would have to discontinue the approach and get vectors around for a hold or another approach. They gave us a turn to the east so we would not go across the north korean border. So we were then paralleling the border headed eastbound and they gave us a vector to the right (south). But there was a solid line of thunderstorms to the right; solid red on the radar. We told them we were unable to turn right due to weather. They said turn right to another heading. Again; we had thunderstorms to the right and could not turn right without endangering the aircraft and ourselves. We told them that we would have to continue straight ahead. She said that we could; but not for long because there is prohibited airspace ahead. Ahead of us were prohibited areas rk (P)-518 and rk (P) 73A & B. So north korea was to the left; prohibited areas straight ahead and thunderstorms to the right. We told ATC that we need to continue straight until a break in the thunderstorms (withing 6 to 10 miles) then we could turn right. We found that break and turned right. At that time; ATC told us to to turn right to a heading and make the turn sharp. We did so. They never said that we penetrated any prohibited areas and nothing came of it. In the end; we diverted to kix; refueled; came back to icn and landed. Like I stated; as far as I know; no prohibited airspace was penetrated. We worked with ATC to try to comply with their instructions while at the same time protecting the aircraft from weather; along with the people on the ground below our aircraft. In the future; I would recommend that ATC should not vector airplanes into a situation such as this. With north korea on one side; prohibited airspace in front and thunderstorms on the other side; there is nowhere to go. In my opinion; all aircraft should be placed in holding until the storm passes. Note; I indicated that we were on the yju 260 radial at 15 miles. That is an approximation after the fact. This report could not be submitted without this info; so that's what I entered as an approximation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: Air carrier flight crew reported ATC put them in a tight spot on arrival into ICN when they were 'boxed in' by thunderstorms and prohibited areas; including North Korean airspace.
Narrative: We were enroute to ICN. There were thunderstorms in the ICN area and surrounding areas and the ATIS was reporting crosswinds from approximately 24 knots gusting to 36 knots initially. The Seoul/Incheon controllers told us that we were number 11 for the approach; then number 15. They were giving us delay vectors. These vectors were typically turns directly into the weather and we told them that we would need a turn in the other direction to remain clear of the thunderstorms. The next vector would typically be toward the storm again and we would once again tell them that we need a turn in the other direction away from the weather. When we were on a downwind vector for runway 15L into ICN; the downwind vector was going to take us directly into solid red on the radar (along with lightning in the cumulonimbus clouds ahead of us). We told them that we needed an early right turn to base. They gave us the right turn to base. In ICN; this also puts you on a heading for the North Korean border. We used the YJU 270 radial as a general reference for the border. When we were about to turn final; the winds at the airport were a direct crosswind of approximately 30 gusting to 46; which is beyond our limits. In addition; ATC said that a previous aircraft reported a loss of 30 knots of airspeed at 1;000 feet above the ground. We told ATC we would have to discontinue the approach and get vectors around for a hold or another approach. They gave us a turn to the east so we would not go across the North Korean border. So we were then paralleling the border headed eastbound and they gave us a vector to the right (south). But there was a solid line of thunderstorms to the right; solid red on the radar. We told them we were unable to turn right due to weather. They said turn right to another heading. Again; we had thunderstorms to the right and could not turn right without endangering the aircraft and ourselves. We told them that we would have to continue straight ahead. She said that we could; but not for long because there is prohibited airspace ahead. Ahead of us were prohibited areas RK (P)-518 and RK (P) 73A & B. So North Korea was to the left; prohibited areas straight ahead and thunderstorms to the right. We told ATC that we need to continue straight until a break in the thunderstorms (withing 6 to 10 miles) then we could turn right. We found that break and turned right. At that time; ATC told us to to turn right to a heading and make the turn sharp. We did so. They never said that we penetrated any prohibited areas and nothing came of it. In the end; we diverted to KIX; refueled; came back to ICN and landed. Like I stated; as far as I know; no prohibited airspace was penetrated. We worked with ATC to try to comply with their instructions while at the same time protecting the aircraft from weather; along with the people on the ground below our aircraft. In the future; I would recommend that ATC should not vector airplanes into a situation such as this. With North Korea on one side; prohibited airspace in front and thunderstorms on the other side; there is nowhere to go. In my opinion; all aircraft should be placed in holding until the storm passes. Note; I indicated that we were on the YJU 260 radial at 15 miles. That is an approximation after the fact. This report could not be submitted without this info; so that's what I entered as an approximation.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.