Narrative:

This unsafe event was detailed and documented in another report. We recommended all scheduled isp radar outages be cancelled until proper; safe procedures could be put in place. The controllers and manager of isp tower did not agree to release the isp radar for maintenance today due to our documented safety concerns. After great pressure from N90; the new york district ordered isp tower to release the radar despite our strong safety concerns. As with all isp radar outages; without proper procedures in place; it was chaotic and dangerous. Controllers were arguing; disagreeing; and ignoring each other in the heat of the uncertainty of the moment. A newly checked out certified professional controller (cpc) said 'I hate this; I'm uncomfortable; I have no idea how to work these airplanes'. At one point an isp tower controller called the supervisor at new york TRACON (N90) isp area to ask what he considers the isp tower airspace. He did not know and said he would call back. Nobody seems to know. The NAS is designed to avoid two controllers working airplanes in the same airspace; yet we are doing this routinely when the radar isp is out of service. It is unclear what our airspace is or how we are to work planes and coordinate between facilities. Some use the back up radar; some don't. Some hand off aircraft; some don't. Some point out aircraft; some don't. Isp tower and N90 are often working aircraft in the same airspace and when the tower tries to coordinate we are rebuked. Today I saw many aircraft too close together; on two different frequencies; without proper coordination. I saw numerous airspace violations if you go by the legal standard of class C airspace is always class C airspace as we have been told by atlanta. Class C never reverts to class D as N90 seems to believe. The procedures in our LOA were written in 1992 when back up radar was not available and we worked non-radar. Back up radar is available; certified; and both facilities are using it; but in a haphazard way personal to each controller who takes the position. Isp tower has drafted procedures to be added to the LOA to create an orderly and safe environment when working with back up radar. N90 will not schedule a meeting to address this issue. It would seem we need intervention to get a meeting scheduled and get this issue resolved. The parties must be brought to the table and procedures agreed upon before the next isp radar outage can be scheduled. The FAA is rolling the dice with the lives of pilots and passengers each time the isp radar is taken out of service and we are forced to invent ways to control airplanes on the fly. The union has filed article 65 protections for the bargaining unit; the agency now assumes all responsibility for this dangerous game they are playing which endangers the flying public. My recommendations; which were documented in another report; are to cancel all pending radar outages until we can establish back up radar procedures; have our LOA amended to reflect the new procedures; and brief them to both facilities. We have draft proposals of both the new isp tower back up radar procedures and new LOA procedures prepared. Both have been forwarded to N90 and we have had some constructive feedback on our plans for when back up radar is in use; but cannot enact those plans without an LOA change. There is still no meeting scheduled; just word from N90's manager that we cannot do any of our planned radar procedures until the old; defunct LOA language is removed. We had asked for a 'pen and ink' change to allow for safe and orderly back up radar use today; but N90 has shown no interest in meeting or rectifying this dangerous situation. To reiterate; we have only non-radar; class D procedures in our current LOA; while we are actually a class C and we are using certified back up radar. We are working without procedures; most have no idea what our airspace is. Only a meeting between facilitiesand an LOA change can fix this very; dangerous situation. S-o-south.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: An ISP Controller reports of the ISP radar being released to Maintenance by the New York District office against the Controller's request. The Controller describes the airspace as chaotic and dangerous without the use of the ISP radar system.

Narrative: This unsafe event was detailed and documented in another report. We recommended all scheduled ISP radar outages be cancelled until proper; safe procedures could be put in place. The controllers and manager of ISP tower did not agree to release the ISP radar for maintenance today due to our documented safety concerns. After great pressure from N90; the New York District ordered ISP tower to release the radar despite our strong safety concerns. As with all ISP radar outages; without proper procedures in place; it was chaotic and dangerous. Controllers were arguing; disagreeing; and ignoring each other in the heat of the uncertainty of the moment. A newly checked out Certified Professional Controller (CPC) said 'I hate this; I'm uncomfortable; I have no idea how to work these airplanes'. At one point an ISP tower controller called the supervisor at New York TRACON (N90) ISP area to ask what he considers the ISP tower airspace. He did not know and said he would call back. Nobody seems to know. The NAS is designed to avoid two controllers working airplanes in the same airspace; yet we are doing this routinely when the radar ISP is out of service. It is unclear what our airspace is or how we are to work planes and coordinate between facilities. Some use the back up radar; some don't. Some hand off aircraft; some don't. Some point out aircraft; some don't. ISP tower and N90 are often working aircraft in the same airspace and when the tower tries to coordinate we are rebuked. Today I saw many aircraft too close together; on two different frequencies; without proper coordination. I saw numerous airspace violations if you go by the legal standard of Class C airspace is always Class C airspace as we have been told by Atlanta. Class C never reverts to Class D as N90 seems to believe. The procedures in our LOA were written in 1992 when back up radar was not available and we worked non-radar. Back up radar is available; certified; and both facilities are using it; but in a haphazard way personal to each controller who takes the position. ISP tower has drafted procedures to be added to the LOA to create an orderly and safe environment when working with back up radar. N90 will not schedule a meeting to address this issue. It would seem we need intervention to get a meeting scheduled and get this issue resolved. The parties must be brought to the table and procedures agreed upon before the next ISP radar outage can be scheduled. The FAA is rolling the dice with the lives of pilots and passengers each time the ISP radar is taken out of service and we are forced to invent ways to control airplanes on the fly. The union has filed Article 65 protections for the bargaining unit; the agency now assumes all responsibility for this dangerous game they are playing which endangers the flying public. My recommendations; which were documented in another report; are to cancel all pending radar outages until we can establish back up radar procedures; have our LOA amended to reflect the new procedures; and brief them to both facilities. We have draft proposals of both the new ISP tower back up radar procedures and new LOA procedures prepared. Both have been forwarded to N90 and we have had some constructive feedback on our plans for when back up radar is in use; but cannot enact those plans without an LOA change. There is still no meeting scheduled; just word from N90's manager that we cannot do any of our planned radar procedures until the old; defunct LOA language is removed. We had asked for a 'pen and ink' change to allow for safe and orderly back up radar use today; but N90 has shown no interest in meeting or rectifying this dangerous situation. To reiterate; we have only non-radar; Class D procedures in our current LOA; while we are actually a Class C and we are using certified back up radar. We are working without procedures; most have no idea what our airspace is. Only a meeting between facilitiesand an LOA change can fix this very; dangerous situation. S-O-S.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.