Narrative:

I am writing this over a repeating issue in the hawker 800XP/900XP I encountered again on this aircraft. It had to do with the improper installation of the forward seat stop for seat 2R in the cabin. As I have mentioned in numerous reports over this issue; the placard for seat 2R in the cabin mandates for taxi; take off; & landing that the seat must be slid fully forward on its base and the seat base slid forward to the forward seat stop. So when preflighting this airplane; I slid the seat 2R fully forward on its base and then proceeded to slide the seat base forward to the forward seat stop. The problem was that the seat slid into seat 1R before it hit the seat stop. I did confirm that seat 1R was slid to its proper position; which is fully forward toward the cockpit; as mandated by its placard and even then checked it 2 more times when maintenance control (mcc) and the acp queried me on this. It was easy to tell that the seat stop was installed too far forward as seat 2R slid well forward of the emergency exit. Therefore; after having had this problem before; I called mcc and advised them of the situation.I discussed this issue with mcc and I told him of the situation and the fact that the seat could not comply with the placard. He asked for pictures so I sent them to him. Shortly afterwards he called me and mentioned how he talked to the airboss and they all felt that you could MEL the seat as the placard would then not be applicable. I mentioned in all my past times that I have had to aog the airplane in this situation; but he said that in this case they wanted to MEL the seat and for me to contact the acp.therefore I called the acp; and discussed the situation with him. In talking with him; I asked if he was familiar with the hawker 800XP; which he replied he was typed in it but it sounded like he didn't have much experience in the airplane. I mentioned the problem of the seat 2R and the fact that the placarded mandated that the seat be in the proper position for taxi; takeoff; and landings. I could tell he was very unfamiliar with this issue and asked for a picture of the placard and how the seats were so I sent him a picture as requested. During this time he was fairly sure that by use of the MEL; that the placard was no longer be applicable and that as long as the seats didn't obstruct the emergency exit; the seats could be MEL'd. I mentioned to him in past cases when the seat was unable to comply with the placard that the seat was left aog. He felt that this was incorrect and for me to MEL the seat.therefore; I hung up the phone but still felt uneasy about this. Then I remembered my maintenance review closure letter from june 2015. In that closure letter; it stated that if the seat stop was missing or the seat could not be slid to the forward seat stop due to interference from another seat; the seat could not be deferred. Well; as this was the case again as the seat could not be slid forward as mandated by the placard I called mcc; and advised him of the situation that due to the closure letter; I would be unable to MEL the seat. I also called the acp; and advised him of what I had found from my closure letter and would be unable to MEL the seat.then after all this transpired; the owner came out to the airplane to retrieve his luggage. This caught me off guard as I had advised the FBO that we were taking care of a maintenance issue and to keep the owner inside and to let us know if he needed us. However; I found out that the owner was going to go to a hotel for a few hours until the recovery aircraft came and he wanted to retrieve his luggage and was therefore allowed to go unescorted out to the aircraft. Well as can be imagined; he was already very upset about the delay he would have as another airplane would not be available until after midnight. When he came out for his luggage; he specifically asked me about why the seat was inoperable and why the airplane could not be flown. Realizing the tenseness of the situation; I tried to diplomatically explain what was wrong with the seat. However; he could not comprehend how we could not just overlook this to get him to his destination. He mentioned he flies the hawker many times and was never made aware of the importance of this seat. I tried to explain to him but realized it was only making him more upset so I just apologized profusely and off he left to the hotel I was told to return later for his trip. The company did have us stay at the FBO and we were there when he returned to offer assistance even though none was needed.when I was discussing this seat stop issue with mcc; the acp asked if there was indeed a black mark on the sidewall rail where the seat stop was. I said that indeed there was; but that this cannot be the right position as there is no way you can comply with this placard which he also read from the picture I took of it. Regardless if the black mark is correct or not; it prevents the seat from being placed in its proper position for taxi; takeoff; & landing as mandated by the placard.now; the next day we were again assigned to this aircraft. So therefore; when the airplane was released; I went to check the logbook on what was done for the seat 2R issue. Well; imaging my surprise when it was signed off as seat stop is correct and the seat clears the emergency exit. Seeing this; I immediately went to the maintenance center to discuss this with the two mechanics. I asked them about why the sign off was done as it seemed the seat stop is incorrect. They mentioned that they had discussed this with mcc and that the seat was correct as is. Knowing the confusion this would cause by me explaining why I wrote up the seat; I had both mechanics come with me to the airplane to read the placard and to see the problem. Both mechanics were oblivious to what this placard mandates for this seat. All they cared about was that the seat cleared the emergency exit. So while mechanic X was watching; I had mechanic Y read the placard for seat 2R and place the seat in the position as mandated by the placarded. In doing this; it was plain to see that due to the location of the seat stop; that the seat could not be placed in its proper position. Both mechanics were perplexed on this discrepancy. They both felt the forward seat stop was correct; but they both acknowledged that by complying with the placard; you could not move seat 2R to its mandated position as seat 1R interferes. However; they felt strongly that the placard must not be correct as the seat stop was. However; I have photos of other aircraft with the forward seat stop farther aft so that the seat 2R just clears the emergency exit leaving enough leg room between the two seats but on this aircraft it isn't so. They could not answer why there was this problem. They therefore called mcc to explain the situation. The mcc personnel on duty; I can't remember his name; was unaware of what the placard said so he had mechanic X send him a picture. After reading the placard and having mechanic X explain the problem; mcc again instructed me to write this seat 2R issue up again; so I did. However; there is a serious disconnect on what is correct for this airplane. If the seat stop is in the right position for this airplane; even though on others it is farther aft; then there is no way you can comply with the placard for seat 2R when it states the seat must be fully forward on its seat base and the seat base slid to the forward seat stop. Either the placard is describing the seat position wrong; or the seat stop is too far forward causing this issue. This situation needs to be resolved as this chronic problem has been plaguing this fleet for 2 plus years I believe since I first wrote this up and filed a report over it.someone needs to cross reference the seat position as mandated by the placard against the position of the forward seat stop. Also; why are some forward seat stops in a different position such as the case between two aircraft. Most airplanes are configured with the seat stop like nxxx versus how nxxxa is. As I always check what the placard reads for seat 2R and then place the seat 2R in this position I don't see if very often wrong. So therefore I don't take a picture of a working seat 2R per the placard but feel I now must because the forward seat stop is installed differently and on the airplanes and where it is installed to far forward; you cannot comply with the placard due to interference from seat 1R.1. I need to find out why there is this huge contradiction on the placard position of seat 2R and the forward seat stop placement on this airplane versus other airplanes?2. There needs to be an emphasis on crews about the placards for all seats; but especially seat 2R; as I am sure this airplane has been flying around for some time and nobody has bothered to comply with the FAA mandated placard.3. The company needs to evaluate every hawker for what the placard reads for seats 2L & 2R and to verify that the seat can be placed in the proper position per the placard as this problem has seemed to manifest as the interiors were being redone.4. As my june closure later stated that you could not MEL the seat if unable to place seat in position mandated by the placard; the MEL needs to be amended with this correction to address this to prevent the seat being MEL'd incorrectly.5. Also; I need to add that I am still finding the carpet mat throw rugs between seat 1R and seat 2R are too long and need to be shortened so that when seat 2R is slid in its position as mandated by the placard; the carpet mat will allow for this. If it is too long; it will jam in the seat and prevent its movement. As every hawker is inspected for the proper position of seat 2R as per the placard; the carpet mat could be checked too.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A Hawker 800XP Captain refused the aircraft because the 2R seat stop was so far forward the seat blocked the emergency exit. Maintenance and the Chief Pilot did not see the obstruction as a seat placard violation.

Narrative: I am writing this over a repeating issue in the Hawker 800XP/900XP I encountered again on this aircraft. It had to do with the improper installation of the forward seat stop for seat 2R in the cabin. As I have mentioned in numerous reports over this issue; the placard for Seat 2R in the cabin mandates for Taxi; Take off; & Landing that the seat must be slid fully forward on its base and the seat base slid forward to the forward seat stop. So when preflighting this airplane; I slid the seat 2R fully forward on its base and then proceeded to slide the seat base forward to the forward seat stop. The problem was that the seat slid into Seat 1R before it hit the seat stop. I did confirm that Seat 1R was slid to its proper position; which is fully forward toward the cockpit; as mandated by its placard and even then checked it 2 more times when Maintenance Control (MCC) and the ACP queried me on this. It was easy to tell that the seat stop was installed too far forward as Seat 2R slid well forward of the emergency exit. Therefore; after having had this problem before; I called MCC and advised them of the situation.I discussed this issue with MCC and I told him of the situation and the fact that the seat could not comply with the placard. He asked for pictures so I sent them to him. Shortly afterwards he called me and mentioned how he talked to the Airboss and they all felt that you could MEL the seat as the placard would then not be applicable. I mentioned in all my past times that I have had to AOG the airplane in this situation; but he said that in this case they wanted to MEL the seat and for me to contact the ACP.Therefore I called the ACP; and discussed the situation with him. In talking with him; I asked if he was familiar with the Hawker 800XP; which he replied he was typed in it but it sounded like he didn't have much experience in the airplane. I mentioned the problem of the Seat 2R and the fact that the placarded mandated that the seat be in the proper position for Taxi; Takeoff; and Landings. I could tell he was very unfamiliar with this issue and asked for a picture of the placard and how the seats were so I sent him a picture as requested. During this time he was fairly sure that by use of the MEL; that the placard was no longer be applicable and that as long as the seats didn't obstruct the Emergency Exit; the seats could be MEL'd. I mentioned to him in past cases when the seat was unable to comply with the placard that the seat was left AOG. He felt that this was incorrect and for me to MEL the seat.Therefore; I hung up the phone but still felt uneasy about this. Then I remembered my maintenance review closure letter from June 2015. In that closure letter; it stated that if the seat stop was missing or the seat could not be slid to the forward seat stop due to interference from another seat; the seat could not be deferred. Well; as this was the case again as the seat could not be slid forward as mandated by the placard I called MCC; and advised him of the situation that due to the closure letter; I would be unable to MEL the seat. I also called the ACP; and advised him of what I had found from my closure letter and would be unable to MEL the seat.Then after all this transpired; the owner came out to the airplane to retrieve his luggage. This caught me off guard as I had advised the FBO that we were taking care of a maintenance issue and to keep the owner inside and to let us know if he needed us. However; I found out that the owner was going to go to a hotel for a few hours until the recovery aircraft came and he wanted to retrieve his luggage and was therefore allowed to go unescorted out to the aircraft. Well as can be imagined; he was already very upset about the delay he would have as another airplane would not be available until after midnight. When he came out for his luggage; he specifically asked me about why the seat was inoperable and why the airplane could not be flown. Realizing the tenseness of the situation; I tried to diplomatically explain what was wrong with the seat. However; he could not comprehend how we could not just overlook this to get him to his destination. He mentioned he flies the Hawker many times and was never made aware of the importance of this seat. I tried to explain to him but realized it was only making him more upset so I just apologized profusely and off he left to the hotel I was told to return later for his trip. The company did have us stay at the FBO and we were there when he returned to offer assistance even though none was needed.When I was discussing this seat stop issue with MCC; the ACP asked if there was indeed a black mark on the sidewall rail where the seat stop was. I said that indeed there was; but that this cannot be the right position as there is no way you can comply with this placard which he also read from the picture I took of it. Regardless if the black mark is correct or not; it prevents the seat from being placed in its proper position for Taxi; Takeoff; & Landing as mandated by the placard.Now; the next day we were again assigned to this aircraft. So therefore; when the airplane was released; I went to check the logbook on what was done for the Seat 2R issue. Well; imaging my surprise when it was signed off as seat stop is correct and the seat clears the Emergency Exit. Seeing this; I immediately went to the maintenance center to discuss this with the two mechanics. I asked them about why the sign off was done as it seemed the seat stop is incorrect. They mentioned that they had discussed this with MCC and that the seat was correct as is. Knowing the confusion this would cause by me explaining why I wrote up the seat; I had both mechanics come with me to the airplane to read the placard and to see the problem. Both mechanics were oblivious to what this placard mandates for this seat. All they cared about was that the seat cleared the Emergency Exit. So while Mechanic X was watching; I had Mechanic Y read the placard for Seat 2R and place the seat in the position as mandated by the placarded. In doing this; it was plain to see that due to the location of the seat stop; that the seat could not be placed in its proper position. Both mechanics were perplexed on this discrepancy. They both felt the forward seat stop was correct; but they both acknowledged that by complying with the placard; you could not move Seat 2R to its mandated position as Seat 1R interferes. However; they felt strongly that the placard must not be correct as the seat stop was. However; I have photos of other aircraft with the forward seat stop farther aft so that the Seat 2R just clears the Emergency Exit leaving enough leg room between the two seats but on this aircraft it isn't so. They could not answer why there was this problem. They therefore called MCC to explain the situation. The MCC personnel on duty; I can't remember his name; was unaware of what the placard said so he had Mechanic X send him a picture. After reading the placard and having Mechanic X explain the problem; MCC again instructed me to write this Seat 2R issue up again; so I did. However; there is a serious disconnect on what is correct for this airplane. If the seat stop is in the right position for this airplane; even though on others it is farther aft; then there is no way you can comply with the placard for Seat 2R when it states the seat must be fully forward on its seat base and the seat base slid to the forward seat stop. Either the placard is describing the seat position wrong; or the seat stop is too far forward causing this issue. This situation needs to be resolved as this chronic problem has been plaguing this fleet for 2 plus years I believe since I first wrote this up and filed a report over it.Someone needs to cross reference the seat position as mandated by the placard against the position of the forward seat stop. Also; why are some forward seat stops in a different position such as the case between two aircraft. Most airplanes are configured with the seat stop like NXXX versus how NXXXA is. As I always check what the placard reads for Seat 2R and then place the Seat 2R in this position I don't see if very often wrong. So therefore I don't take a picture of a working Seat 2R per the placard but feel I now must because the forward seat stop is installed differently and on the airplanes and where it is installed to far forward; you cannot comply with the placard due to interference from Seat 1R.1. I need to find out why there is this huge contradiction on the placard position of Seat 2R and the forward seat stop placement on this airplane versus other airplanes?2. There needs to be an emphasis on crews about the placards for all seats; but especially Seat 2R; as I am sure this airplane has been flying around for some time and nobody has bothered to comply with the FAA mandated placard.3. The company needs to evaluate every Hawker for what the placard reads for Seats 2L & 2R and to verify that the seat can be placed in the proper position per the placard as this problem has seemed to manifest as the interiors were being redone.4. As my June closure later stated that you could not MEL the seat if unable to place seat in position mandated by the placard; the MEL needs to be amended with this correction to address this to prevent the seat being MEL'd incorrectly.5. Also; I need to add that I am still finding the carpet mat throw rugs between Seat 1R and Seat 2R are too long and need to be shortened so that when Seat 2R is slid in its position as mandated by the placard; the carpet mat will allow for this. If it is too long; it will jam in the seat and prevent its movement. As every Hawker is inspected for the proper position of Seat 2R as per the placard; the carpet mat could be checked too.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.