 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
B737 first officer reported the sfo DYAMD2 STAR may have some errors related to class B floor.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 1293253 |
| Time | |
| Date | 201509 |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | Descent |
| Route In Use | STAR DYAMD TWO |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Function | First Officer |
| Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | No Specific Anomaly Occurred All Types |
Narrative:
I am writing to bring a charting issue to your attention on the new sfo DYAMD2 STAR. The published altitude and speed restriction at archi intersection is 7;000 feet and 230 kts. On the ILS 28R; the published altitude at archi intersection is also 7;000 feet. First; we are being told by our flight department that archi intersection at 7;000 feet is below the current floor of the sfo class B airspace. If this is true; then the published speed of 230 kts. At archi is in direct violation to the 200 kt. Speed limit below class B airspace. If archi at 7;000 feet is below the floor of the class B airspace; why would there be a published altitude on a STAR that would put an airplane below the floor of the class B airspace? I have also learned that the floor of the sfo class B airspace was supposed to have been lowered from 8;000 feet to 7;000 feet with the introduction of the DYAMD2 STAR; but supposedly that has yet to happen. If this is true; then it will take care of the speed limit issue.the other main issue is that on the DYAMD2; archi is listed at 7;000 feet; and on the FMS bridge visual approach; the published altitude at archi is 8;000 feet. This is creating confusion between pilots and ATC when given a 'descend via' clearance. Most of the time sfo ATC uses the FMS bridge visual approach; which causes confusion regarding the correct altitude at archi. The ATC center gives pilots the clearance to 'descend via the DYAMD2 STAR' which has 7;000 feet as the bottom altitude; but then as you are descending on the arrival; the sfo ATC approach controller then clears you only to 8;000 feet; thereby increasing the work load and chances of busting a speed or altitude restriction. So; in order to relieve any confusion; publishing the same altitude at archi on all approach plates and stars would be much better. This would alleviate any question about the speed limit issue below the class B airspace; as well as have all the altitudes at archi all be the same. I have also been informed that the stars are basically created for transitions for instrument approaches; and not visual approaches. This does hold true because the altitude for archi on the DYAMD2 and on the ILS 28R are both 7;000 feet. However; it would be much easier for both pilots and ATC if all the altitudes for archi intersection were all the same on all the stars and approach plates; no matter whether they are visual or instrument approaches.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 First Officer reported the SFO DYAMD2 STAR may have some errors related to Class B floor.
Narrative: I am writing to bring a charting issue to your attention on the new SFO DYAMD2 STAR. The published altitude and speed restriction at ARCHI intersection is 7;000 feet and 230 kts. On the ILS 28R; the published altitude at ARCHI intersection is also 7;000 feet. First; we are being told by our flight department that ARCHI intersection at 7;000 feet is BELOW the current floor of the SFO Class B airspace. If this is true; then the published speed of 230 kts. at ARCHI is in direct violation to the 200 kt. speed limit below Class B airspace. If ARCHI at 7;000 feet is below the floor of the Class B airspace; why would there be a published altitude on a STAR that would put an airplane below the floor of the Class B airspace? I have also learned that the floor of the SFO Class B airspace was supposed to have been lowered from 8;000 feet to 7;000 feet with the introduction of the DYAMD2 STAR; but supposedly that has yet to happen. If this is true; then it will take care of the speed limit issue.The other main issue is that on the DYAMD2; ARCHI is listed at 7;000 feet; and on the FMS Bridge Visual approach; the published altitude at ARCHI is 8;000 feet. This is creating confusion between pilots and ATC when given a 'Descend Via' clearance. Most of the time SFO ATC uses the FMS Bridge Visual approach; which causes confusion regarding the correct altitude at ARCHI. The ATC Center gives pilots the clearance to 'Descend Via the DYAMD2 STAR' which has 7;000 feet as the bottom altitude; but then as you are descending on the arrival; the SFO ATC Approach controller then clears you only to 8;000 feet; thereby increasing the work load and chances of busting a speed or altitude restriction. So; in order to relieve any confusion; publishing the same altitude at ARCHI on all approach plates and STARS would be much better. This would alleviate any question about the speed limit issue below the Class B airspace; as well as have all the altitudes at ARCHI all be the same. I have also been informed that the STARs are basically created for transitions for instrument approaches; and not visual approaches. This does hold true because the altitude for ARCHI on the DYAMD2 and on the ILS 28R are both 7;000 feet. However; It would be much easier for both pilots and ATC if all the altitudes for ARCHI intersection were all the same on all the STARs and approach plates; no matter whether they are visual or instrument approaches.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.