37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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Attributes | |
ACN | 1314037 |
Time | |
Date | 201511 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801-2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | LAX.Airport |
State Reference | CA |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Large Transport Low Wing 2 Turbojet Eng |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Initial Approach |
Route In Use | STAR REDEYE 2 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Pilot Not Flying First Officer |
Qualification | Flight Crew Instrument Flight Crew Flight Instructor Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) Flight Crew Multiengine |
Events | |
Anomaly | Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy |
Narrative:
On a very late night flight to lax from the east coast; we were given a STAR change from the seavu 2 arrival to the redeye 2 arrival by la center. The clearance was direct konzl then descend via the redeye 2. We changed the STAR and arrival runway in the FMS and re-briefed our arrival. Upon reviewing the jeppesen chart for the REDEYE2 we determined that the 'bottom altitude' (i.e.; the altitude to set in the autopilot mode control panel window) should be 10;000. I reviewed the chart multiple times and agreed that at or above 10;000 at the waypoint downe was the last published altitude restriction.later in the descent I noticed we made a mistake and the bottom altitude is actually 8;000 not 10;000. I discovered this error when I reviewed the jeppesen chart once again on my efb and noticed that there was a small box with a long arrow separated from the box labeling a waypoint (santa monica VOR). This small box only has 'at 8000'' in it and is located far away from the waypoint and far away from the label of the waypoint. Most of the altitudes are located right under the label of the waypoint. There is no apparent reason that jeppesen had to locate the 8000 label away from the waypoint label. And in so doing they nearly caused us to set in the wrong altitude and have an altitude deviation. If I had not caught our error when I did then we would have leveled at 10;000 and not made santa monica at 8;000.the government chart seems to locate every altitude constraint under the waypoint label in a way that is easier to see (https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1512/pdf/00237REDEYE.pdf ). I would recommend that jeppesen change its chart design to do the same to prevent other crews from making this mistake.this mistake has been made before as shown in the NASA ASRS database: #589145 from 2003 'apch also told us that a lot of crews fail to cross smo VOR at 8000 ft.'
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: Flight crew received a late runway and arrival change to LAX. When they programed the new data into their flight computers they experienced difficulty determining the final published altitude. They attributed this difficulty to a design flaw in the way altitude restrictions were depicted on the chart.
Narrative: On a very late night flight to LAX from the East coast; we were given a STAR change from the SEAVU 2 arrival to the REDEYE 2 arrival by LA center. The clearance was direct KONZL then descend via the REDEYE 2. We changed the STAR and arrival runway in the FMS and re-briefed our arrival. Upon reviewing the Jeppesen chart for the REDEYE2 we determined that the 'bottom altitude' (i.e.; the altitude to set in the autopilot mode control panel window) should be 10;000. I reviewed the chart multiple times and agreed that at or above 10;000 at the waypoint DOWNE was the last published altitude restriction.Later in the descent I noticed we made a mistake and the bottom altitude is actually 8;000 not 10;000. I discovered this error when I reviewed the Jeppesen chart once again on my EFB and noticed that there was a small box with a long arrow separated from the box labeling a waypoint (SANTA MONICA VOR). This small box only has 'At 8000'' in it and is located far away from the waypoint and far away from the label of the waypoint. Most of the altitudes are located right under the label of the waypoint. There is no apparent reason that Jeppesen had to locate the 8000 label away from the waypoint label. And in so doing they nearly caused us to set in the wrong altitude and have an altitude deviation. If I had not caught our error when I did then we would have leveled at 10;000 and not made SANTA MONICA at 8;000.The government chart seems to locate every altitude constraint under the waypoint label in a way that is easier to see (https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1512/pdf/00237REDEYE.PDF ). I would recommend that Jeppesen change its chart design to do the same to prevent other crews from making this mistake.This mistake has been made before as shown in the NASA ASRS database: #589145 from 2003 'Apch also told us that a lot of crews fail to cross SMO VOR at 8000 ft.'
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.