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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1335789 |
Time | |
Date | 201602 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801-2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | LGA.Airport |
State Reference | NY |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | EMB ERJ 170/175 ER/LR |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Final Approach Landing |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | First Officer Pilot Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Inflight Event / Encounter Weather / Turbulence |
Narrative:
I was the pilot flying as a captain flying as a first officer. It had been several weeks since I had flown from the first officer seat and I expressed to the captain I felt rusty flying from that seat. As we approached lga the weather was overcast at 1;000 feet with high winds. I recall the ATIS being something in the realm of 300/25 with gusts to 33 landing 22; departing 31. This runway configuration results in almost a direct x-wind. In my mind I thought this was borderline dangerous and remarked to the captain 'why are we not landing on runway 31?' in the past; with similar conditions at lga; approach or tower has reprimanded me when I have asked about using runway 31. They have asked; if 'I could not handle the current conditions as everyone else was getting in' or that 'to shift runways would cause major delays.' on the downwind leg we received the ice conditions annunciation and updated our speeds. The new reference speed with the x-winds; not including gusts; and icing was now 148kts; this should have told us we were operating on the margins of safety. On the glideslope the autopilot and auto-throttles were not able keep up with the shifting winds and I elected to turn them off. At 1;000 feet; tower advised of a 15-knot loss or gain between 500 and 300 feet; which we encountered as well. We discussed this and felt with the additional speed we were ok; but briefed what to do in the event of a wind-shear warning or caution. The entire approach was very uncomfortable for the passengers with me literally wrestling the aircraft from 1;000 feet to the runway. During the flare I hit the stops of the rudder at least once that I noticed and approached full deflection of the ailerons and was having difficulty keeping the aircraft on the centerline as the speed required for the approach bled off. My touchdown was firm to say the least. During the descent I noticed whitecaps and foam on the water; after landing it occurred to me that with the exposed end of runway 22 jutting out into the bay; winds were most likely higher near the touchdown zone than where the winds are measured at the center of the field. Meaning the ATIS was giving a lower than actual reported wind.when I arrived at the crew room; all of the pilots were remarking that it was 'crazy out there' and they could not believe we were still using 22 for landing; they all had encountered conditions similar to mine. This reassured me; I was not the only pilot with an issue. When I flew out of lga the following morning with nearly identical conditions they had switched to a single runway configuration; using 31 for landings and takeoffs. I know this is not preferred but when we landed the following day from ZZZ; the approach was a non-issue and very comfortable for the passengers. I'm not here to be chuck yeager; I'm here to drive a bus from point a to point B as safely as possible with passengers on board. It would be nice if ATC would assist me in this enterprise by enhancing the margin of safety and not forcing me to operate near the margins. I did not ask the captain to contribute to this report; as there were no violations or deviations I am aware of.I would like to pass this along to lga ATC. Just because we can do something; doesn't mean we should be doing it. No pilot wants to be the guy who says I can't handle the approach. When I ran out of rudder; I knew I was at the limit of the plane and that what I was experiencing was above what the ATIS and tower were reporting. Maybe lga can take this event into account and establish a maximum x-wind limitation. The very high x-winds coupled with my lack of comfort and proficiency operating from the right seat contributed to this potentially unsafe situation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ERJ-175 Captain flying in the First Officer's seat expressed concern at the safety of the approach and landing at LGA in gusty conditions when ATC continued to use a crosswind runway.
Narrative: I was the pilot flying as a Captain flying as a First Officer. It had been several weeks since I had flown from the FO seat and I expressed to the Captain I felt rusty flying from that seat. As we approached LGA the weather was overcast at 1;000 feet with high winds. I recall the ATIS being something in the realm of 300/25 with gusts to 33 landing 22; departing 31. This runway configuration results in almost a direct X-wind. In my mind I thought this was borderline dangerous and remarked to the Captain 'why are we not landing on RWY 31?' In the past; with similar conditions at LGA; approach or tower has reprimanded me when I have asked about using RWY 31. They have asked; if 'I could not handle the current conditions as everyone else was getting in' or that 'to shift runways would cause major delays.' On the downwind leg we received the Ice Conditions annunciation and updated our speeds. The new reference speed with the X-winds; not including gusts; and icing was now 148kts; this should have told us we were operating on the margins of safety. On the glideslope the autopilot and auto-throttles were not able keep up with the shifting winds and I elected to turn them off. At 1;000 feet; tower advised of a 15-knot loss or gain between 500 and 300 feet; which we encountered as well. We discussed this and felt with the additional speed we were OK; but briefed what to do in the event of a wind-shear warning or caution. The entire approach was very uncomfortable for the passengers with me literally wrestling the aircraft from 1;000 feet to the runway. During the flare I hit the stops of the rudder at least once that I noticed and approached full deflection of the ailerons and was having difficulty keeping the aircraft on the centerline as the speed required for the approach bled off. My touchdown was firm to say the least. During the descent I noticed whitecaps and foam on the water; after landing it occurred to me that with the exposed end of RWY 22 jutting out into the bay; winds were most likely higher near the touchdown zone than where the winds are measured at the center of the field. Meaning the ATIS was giving a lower than actual reported wind.When I arrived at the crew room; all of the pilots were remarking that it was 'crazy out there' and they could not believe we were still using 22 for landing; they all had encountered conditions similar to mine. This reassured me; I was not the only pilot with an issue. When I flew out of LGA the following morning with nearly identical conditions they had switched to a single runway configuration; using 31 for landings and takeoffs. I know this is not preferred but when we landed the following day from ZZZ; the approach was a non-issue and very comfortable for the passengers. I'm not here to be Chuck Yeager; I'm here to drive a bus from point A to point B as safely as possible with passengers on board. It would be nice if ATC would assist me in this enterprise by enhancing the margin of safety and not forcing me to operate near the margins. I did not ask the Captain to contribute to this report; as there were no violations or deviations I am aware of.I would like to pass this along to LGA ATC. Just because we can do something; doesn't mean we should be doing it. No pilot wants to be the guy who says I can't handle the approach. When I ran out of rudder; I knew I was at the limit of the plane and that what I was experiencing was above what the ATIS and tower were reporting. Maybe LGA can take this event into account and establish a maximum X-wind limitation. The very high X-winds coupled with my lack of comfort and proficiency operating from the right seat contributed to this potentially unsafe situation.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.