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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 133678 |
Time | |
Date | 199001 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : isp |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 1100 msl bound upper : 1500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : isp |
Operator | common carrier : air taxi |
Make Model Name | Small Aircraft, Low Wing, 1 Eng, Fixed Gear |
Flight Phase | descent : approach other |
Flight Plan | None |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Small Aircraft, High Wing, 1 Eng, Fixed Gear |
Flight Phase | descent : approach other |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | instruction : instructor oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 300 flight time total : 1200 |
ASRS Report | 133678 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | instruction : trainee |
Qualification | pilot : student |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : nmac non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | vertical : 400 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Training flight touch-and-goes on runway 24 at isp airport. It was right traffic. I was told I was #2 behind small aircraft Y on right base. I looked for my traffic and saw an aircraft on final which made us #2. I turned base. Supposedly ended up above another aircraft on final. Was told to go around. Never saw other aircraft. While in the next downwind the controller asked me if I was an instructor, and who I flew for. She questioned why I turned base early. I told her I was #2 and had the traffic. She said that I was told I was #3. At the time of occurrence, the tower was also in a training phase. There was a man training and a women backing him. The man told us we were #2, the woman told us after (in the next downwind) we were #3. I told her we were told #2. She argued and we left the pattern back to our home base. I called her by phone when I got back. I said the tower frequency was not the lace to argue. She said my tone of voice was uncalled for. She asked if I wanted the tapes pulled. I said I would like to settle this on the phone. I also said that we (pilots and controllers) should work together. She said ok and I think we settled it. I'm sending you this to make sure. P.south. My student had to ask me which controller to listen to -- the man or the woman -- because he would say something and she would say something else for a period of about 45 mins. I think they were at fault and the tower frequency should not be used to settle a dispute.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: TWO SMA'S IN TRAFFIC PATTERN HAVE CONFLICT AND PROBABLE NMAC. PLT CTLR DISPUTE ABOUT CLRNC AND SEQUENCE.
Narrative: TRAINING FLT TOUCH-AND-GOES ON RWY 24 AT ISP ARPT. IT WAS RIGHT TFC. I WAS TOLD I WAS #2 BEHIND SMA Y ON RIGHT BASE. I LOOKED FOR MY TFC AND SAW AN ACFT ON FINAL WHICH MADE US #2. I TURNED BASE. SUPPOSEDLY ENDED UP ABOVE ANOTHER ACFT ON FINAL. WAS TOLD TO GO AROUND. NEVER SAW OTHER ACFT. WHILE IN THE NEXT DOWNWIND THE CTLR ASKED ME IF I WAS AN INSTRUCTOR, AND WHO I FLEW FOR. SHE QUESTIONED WHY I TURNED BASE EARLY. I TOLD HER I WAS #2 AND HAD THE TFC. SHE SAID THAT I WAS TOLD I WAS #3. AT THE TIME OF OCCURRENCE, THE TWR WAS ALSO IN A TRAINING PHASE. THERE WAS A MAN TRAINING AND A WOMEN BACKING HIM. THE MAN TOLD US WE WERE #2, THE WOMAN TOLD US AFTER (IN THE NEXT DOWNWIND) WE WERE #3. I TOLD HER WE WERE TOLD #2. SHE ARGUED AND WE LEFT THE PATTERN BACK TO OUR HOME BASE. I CALLED HER BY PHONE WHEN I GOT BACK. I SAID THE TWR FREQ WAS NOT THE LACE TO ARGUE. SHE SAID MY TONE OF VOICE WAS UNCALLED FOR. SHE ASKED IF I WANTED THE TAPES PULLED. I SAID I WOULD LIKE TO SETTLE THIS ON THE PHONE. I ALSO SAID THAT WE (PLTS AND CTLRS) SHOULD WORK TOGETHER. SHE SAID OK AND I THINK WE SETTLED IT. I'M SENDING YOU THIS TO MAKE SURE. P.S. MY STUDENT HAD TO ASK ME WHICH CTLR TO LISTEN TO -- THE MAN OR THE WOMAN -- BECAUSE HE WOULD SAY SOMETHING AND SHE WOULD SAY SOMETHING ELSE FOR A PERIOD OF ABOUT 45 MINS. I THINK THEY WERE AT FAULT AND THE TWR FREQ SHOULD NOT BE USED TO SETTLE A DISPUTE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.