37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1339594 |
Time | |
Date | 201603 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801-2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | ZID.ARTCC |
State Reference | IN |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Route In Use | STAR MAUDD 3 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Captain Pilot Flying |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 154 |
Person 2 | |
Function | Pilot Not Flying First Officer |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 155 Flight Crew Type 5000 |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Altitude Crossing Restriction Not Met Deviation - Procedural Clearance Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy |
Narrative:
My main purpose in writing this as soon as possible is to point out that [the] maudd 3 arrival into sdf is confusing at best. Specifically; the page has a box at maudd which shows 'at or above 10;000'' and below says 'expect clearance to cross maudd at 250 KIAS and 10;000'.' no conditions are associated with the box as to which applies when. Other fixes; as an example; have 'if landing north' or 'turbo jets expect;' etc. As has always been my habit; I loaded the FMC with all the pertinent data to include landing runway 17L; and then began to crosscheck the box against jepps by myself before going through the briefing with the pilot monitoring (pm).when I got to maudd; I stopped and couldn't figure it out; so I asked pm/first officer (first officer); 'what am I missing. Do you see or understand what's going on at maudd? They seem to be contradictory.' he looked and agreed. With runway 17L programmed; the FMC populated maudd with 10;000 feet. Since we were landing south and therefore flying past the airport on a downwind over louisville; the 10;000 feet made sense to me; so I decided leave that in the box. After being given a descent to I believe FL240 or something in that neighborhood from FL380; I began a 1;000 fpm gas-saving descent well below the path. First officer asked several times with two different controllers if we needed to expect maudd at 10;000 feet but never got an answer; just further descent clearance. Finally; the second controller directed us to cross maudd at 250KIAS/11;000 feet. First officer immediately advised 'we are going to be high' but never received an answer. I rolled in a 5;000 fpm descent; took the aircraft up to 320 KIAS just under vmo and showed I would just barely be high; maybe 500-1000 feet or so; but since there was a cloud layer at approximately 12;000 feet and I didn't know if the rides would continue to be smooth; I slowed the descent rate in order to attain best turbulence penetration speed of 280 KIAS and therefore ultimately crossed maudd at about 13;000 feet or less.despite first officer asking several more times; the controller never acknowledged our calls until just before we leveled off to slow down; finally stating 'descend to 11;000 feet' with no acknowledgement of us being high. There didn't seem to be any issues; no other aircraft were in the vicinity that I know of. However; in my opinion; the controller was very 'maxed out' and unresponsive to us. The remainder of the flight was uneventful.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 flight crew reported they failed to make a crossing restriction on the MAUDD3 arrival into SDF in part because of confusion caused by chart wording.
Narrative: My main purpose in writing this ASAP is to point out that [the] MAUDD 3 Arrival into SDF is confusing at best. Specifically; the page has a box at MAUDD which shows 'at or above 10;000'' and below says 'Expect clearance to cross MAUDD at 250 KIAS and 10;000'.' No conditions are associated with the box as to which applies when. Other fixes; as an example; have 'if landing north' or 'turbo jets expect;' etc. As has always been my habit; I loaded the FMC with all the pertinent data to include landing Runway 17L; and then began to crosscheck the box against Jepps by myself before going through the briefing with the Pilot Monitoring (PM).When I got to MAUDD; I stopped and couldn't figure it out; so I asked PM/First Officer (FO); 'What am I missing. Do you see or understand what's going on at MAUDD? They seem to be contradictory.' He looked and agreed. With Runway 17L programmed; the FMC populated MAUDD with 10;000 feet. Since we were landing south and therefore flying past the airport on a downwind over Louisville; the 10;000 feet made sense to me; so I decided leave that in the box. After being given a descent to I believe FL240 or something in that neighborhood from FL380; I began a 1;000 fpm gas-saving descent well below the path. FO asked several times with two different Controllers if we needed to expect MAUDD at 10;000 feet but never got an answer; just further descent clearance. Finally; the second Controller directed us to cross MAUDD at 250KIAS/11;000 feet. FO immediately advised 'we are going to be high' but never received an answer. I rolled in a 5;000 fpm descent; took the aircraft up to 320 KIAS just under VMO and showed I would just barely be high; maybe 500-1000 feet or so; but since there was a cloud layer at approximately 12;000 feet and I didn't know if the rides would continue to be smooth; I slowed the descent rate in order to attain best turbulence penetration speed of 280 KIAS and therefore ultimately crossed MAUDD at about 13;000 feet or less.Despite FO asking several more times; the Controller never acknowledged our calls until just before we leveled off to slow down; finally stating 'descend to 11;000 feet' with no acknowledgement of us being high. There didn't seem to be any issues; no other aircraft were in the vicinity that I know of. However; in my opinion; the Controller was very 'maxed out' and unresponsive to us. The remainder of the flight was uneventful.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.