Narrative:

Unable to obtain VFR radar service from ny tracon; C180 was circumnavigating the outer ring of the ny B airspace generally east/northeast at a VFR altitude of 5500 in VMC with an airspeed of approximately 130 KIAS and ground speed of 150 kts. At about 10.5 miles off the 100 radial of the sax VOR; [a] B777 was visually identified by the pilot flying as posing an immediate threat to the safety of flight. Evasive maneuvering including a maximum performance climb was initiated by pilot flying. Pilot not flying then observed the B777 cross directly underneath the C180 at a total distance allowing the pilot not flying to identify individual people within the B777 aircraft. Adsb in was in use on the C180; using the garmin pilot app on an ipad. The B777 was not observed electronically prior to evasive maneuvering. After the C180 leveled out at about 6000 ft the pilot not flying was able to capture a screenshot of the B777 showing an altitude separation of -500 ft. It is estimated this took place 20-30 seconds after the incident. The pilot flying and pilot not flying were able to confirm using two separate and distinct GPS navigation systems that the C180 was in fact in class east airspace several miles outside ny B outer ring. Position was also confirmed visually using ground based landmarks. Both the pilot flying and the pilot not flying were able to observe mode C operation of the C180 transponder; and had previously received radar service on this flight; so are confident mode C was operable at the time leading up to the incident.probable cause was ATC refusal to take VFR handoff to provide radar services to VFR aircraft. Contributing factors was ATC inability to maintain separation of an IFR aircraft from additional traffic. [B777] crew's inability to determine separation from VFR traffic using on board traffic detection equipment. C180 crew's inability to see and avoid traffic approaching the ny bravo airspace until evasive maneuvering was required; due to navigation requirements to avoid airspace and weather in the area at the time of the incident. Possible solutions for consideration would be to ensure air carrier aircraft maintain altitudes more typically associated with air carrier operations while still outside the bravo airspace. 30 miles from ewr does not require a B777 to fly at 5500 ft when this altitude and area is typically congested with VFR traffic. ATC's refusal to provide radar service to aircraft operating in and around this area should be reviewed. It is common for ny approach to refuse handoff and not to answer VFR aircraft looking for assistance when operating in these congested areas. Proper approach frequencies specific to airspace and altitude allowing for pilots to monitor approach while circumnavigating an area where multiple frequency changes are common for multiple sections would allow pilots to at least easily listen to the correct frequency while transitioning this airspace to obtain additional awareness of other aircraft.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: C180 instructor pilot reported an NMAC with a B777 near SAX VOR.

Narrative: Unable to obtain VFR radar service from NY Tracon; C180 was circumnavigating the outer ring of the NY B airspace generally East/Northeast at a VFR altitude of 5500 in VMC with an airspeed of approximately 130 KIAS and ground speed of 150 kts. At about 10.5 miles off the 100 radial of the SAX VOR; [a] B777 was visually identified by the pilot flying as posing an immediate threat to the safety of flight. Evasive maneuvering including a maximum performance climb was initiated by pilot flying. Pilot not flying then observed the B777 cross directly underneath the C180 at a total distance allowing the pilot not flying to identify individual people within the B777 aircraft. ADSB IN was in use on the C180; using the Garmin Pilot app on an iPad. The B777 was not observed electronically prior to evasive maneuvering. After the C180 leveled out at about 6000 ft the pilot not flying was able to capture a screenshot of the B777 showing an altitude separation of -500 ft. It is estimated this took place 20-30 seconds after the incident. The pilot flying and pilot not flying were able to confirm using two separate and distinct GPS navigation systems that the C180 was in fact in Class E airspace several miles outside NY B outer ring. Position was also confirmed visually using ground based landmarks. Both the pilot flying and the pilot not flying were able to observe Mode C operation of the C180 transponder; and had previously received radar service on this flight; so are confident Mode C was operable at the time leading up to the incident.Probable cause was ATC refusal to take VFR handoff to provide radar services to VFR aircraft. Contributing factors was ATC inability to maintain separation of an IFR aircraft from additional traffic. [B777] crew's inability to determine separation from VFR traffic using on board traffic detection equipment. C180 crew's inability to see and avoid traffic approaching the NY Bravo airspace until evasive maneuvering was required; due to navigation requirements to avoid airspace and weather in the area at the time of the incident. Possible solutions for consideration would be to ensure air carrier aircraft maintain altitudes more typically associated with air carrier operations while still outside the Bravo airspace. 30 miles from EWR does not require a B777 to fly at 5500 ft when this altitude and area is typically congested with VFR traffic. ATC's refusal to provide radar service to aircraft operating in and around this area should be reviewed. It is common for NY Approach to refuse handoff and not to answer VFR aircraft looking for assistance when operating in these congested areas. Proper approach frequencies specific to airspace and altitude allowing for pilots to monitor approach while circumnavigating an area where multiple frequency changes are common for multiple sections would allow pilots to at least easily listen to the correct frequency while transitioning this airspace to obtain additional awareness of other aircraft.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.