 |
37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Air carrier medium large transport assigned 075 degree heading outbound smo VOR on harbor visual at lax drifts south in north wind and experiences conflict with traffic to parallel 25L.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 137448 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199002 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 5000 msl bound upper : 5000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
| Route In Use | approach : visual |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 2900 |
| ASRS Report | 137448 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Sjc to lax. Approaching fillmore VOR cleared a 24/25 profile descent. Inside fillmore lax approach cleared us to depart santa monica VOR on a 075 degree heading for the harbor visibility 25R lax. Departed santa monica 075 degree at 10000', cleared to 5000'. Could see traffic inbound to lax on the 25L ILS. Approach called out our traffic at 4000' and requested us to start our base and turn inside of him to land on 25R. As we started our right turn, I realized we could not stay inside of our traffic; we maintained altitude and passed above and behind him. Approach changed our runway to 25L and put our traffic on 25R. The harbor visibility uses the 068 degree radial off santa monica for a proper abeam and 180 degree position. The lax controllers are used to a southerly wind and normally issue 075 degree which gives an adequate abeam position. The wind that night was northerly and drifted us too close to lax. The controller did not adjust for the northerly wind, he must have seen on his radar that we were not in the normal 180 degree position, yet he still issued the standard visibility clearance and expected us to accomplish a turn that the aircraft was not capable of making. I feel that there are a lot of controllers around the system that use the visibility approach clearance to relieve themselves of the responsibility of properly controling aircraft and getting aircraft in the proper position for an approach.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR MLG ASSIGNED 075 DEG HDG OUTBOUND SMO VOR ON HARBOR VISUAL AT LAX DRIFTS SOUTH IN NORTH WIND AND EXPERIENCES CONFLICT WITH TRAFFIC TO PARALLEL 25L.
Narrative: SJC TO LAX. APCHING FILLMORE VOR CLRED A 24/25 PROFILE DSCNT. INSIDE FILLMORE LAX APCH CLRED US TO DEPART SANTA MONICA VOR ON A 075 DEG HDG FOR THE HARBOR VIS 25R LAX. DEPARTED SANTA MONICA 075 DEG AT 10000', CLRED TO 5000'. COULD SEE TFC INBND TO LAX ON THE 25L ILS. APCH CALLED OUT OUR TFC AT 4000' AND REQUESTED US TO START OUR BASE AND TURN INSIDE OF HIM TO LAND ON 25R. AS WE STARTED OUR R TURN, I REALIZED WE COULD NOT STAY INSIDE OF OUR TFC; WE MAINTAINED ALT AND PASSED ABOVE AND BEHIND HIM. APCH CHANGED OUR RWY TO 25L AND PUT OUR TFC ON 25R. THE HARBOR VIS USES THE 068 DEG RADIAL OFF SANTA MONICA FOR A PROPER ABEAM AND 180 DEG POS. THE LAX CTLRS ARE USED TO A SOUTHERLY WIND AND NORMALLY ISSUE 075 DEG WHICH GIVES AN ADEQUATE ABEAM POS. THE WIND THAT NIGHT WAS NORTHERLY AND DRIFTED US TOO CLOSE TO LAX. THE CTLR DID NOT ADJUST FOR THE NORTHERLY WIND, HE MUST HAVE SEEN ON HIS RADAR THAT WE WERE NOT IN THE NORMAL 180 DEG POS, YET HE STILL ISSUED THE STANDARD VIS CLRNC AND EXPECTED US TO ACCOMPLISH A TURN THAT THE ACFT WAS NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING. I FEEL THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF CTLRS AROUND THE SYS THAT USE THE VIS APCH CLRNC TO RELIEVE THEMSELVES OF THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PROPERLY CTLING ACFT AND GETTING ACFT IN THE PROPER POS FOR AN APCH.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.