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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1375898 |
Time | |
Date | 201607 |
Local Time Of Day | 0601-1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | ZZZ.Airport |
State Reference | US |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | EMB ERJ 145 ER/LR |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Final Approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | First Officer Pilot Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Events | |
Anomaly | Inflight Event / Encounter Unstabilized Approach Inflight Event / Encounter Weather / Turbulence |
Narrative:
Our crew met at the airplane after we timed out the day before. When I came back from the walk around; I saw we got a second alternate added to our flight plan of ZZZ1. That is when my captain and I started discussing weather and started to form a game plan for getting to ZZZ. We noticed by looking at the radar that if we cut past a storm then go north we could come in and land runway xx in ZZZ. I messaged dispatch before we took off asking if they thought it would be better to delay the departure and see if the storm would pass but the dispatcher responded that they did not think that would help. So we departed and started heading to ZZZ. During the flight we were messaging dispatch asking about the airport conditions in ZZZ and weather movement. We deviated around weather and descended to 13000 feet. As we were deviating getting closer to the airport; we got a message from dispatch saying the airport is good. My captain and I were thinking that we would make it to the airport if we could just get around the weather. We were still deviating and descending closer to the airport as we saw ways to avoid the weather. We asked approach how the weather was and they said thunderstorms all quadrants. We were asking for help from approach to try and get some guidance on how to get on approach but it eventually was the captain and I that mentioned if we flew this heading for X miles we could turn and get on the approach. We were given a heading to get on the approach and ATC just said something along the lines of cleared in and visibility was 3/8 mile which is below minimums. Then about 30 seconds later after I mentioned that minimums were 1/2 mile to the captain; ATC said that visibility was a 1/2 mile. We got a message from dispatch saying if we went missed do not turn to the right because of a large cell a few miles the west of the field. We were tracking the localizer to runway xx and close to the FAF; I asked the captain if we were cleared for the ILS approach. He queried ATC and they said that we were cleared for the ILS. It was a late clearance and the phraseology was confusing enough that we had to ask ATC again to make sure; causing us to start descending a little late on the ILS. The plane was having a hard time tracking the ILS guidance down and we were getting very fast descent rates 1000 to 2500 FPM due to the late ATC clearance causing the plane to be unstable and chase the vertical path. That is when the autopilot kicked off from turbulence and I took over calling and initiating a go around at around 1500 feet MSL. As I called out the procedures the captain did as asked while telling ATC we were going missed. We were given runway heading up to 3000 feet as our missed clearance. We encountered very heavy rain and my captain asked ATC for a higher altitude and that we were diverting to ZZZ1. They came back and gave us 6000 ft and direct ZZZ1 as well as being cleared to deviate around WX. Then they gave us a new squawk code for probably the 5th time that flight. My captain responded with something along the lines of 'not now' as we were task saturated at a low altitude trying to get out of the weather. We kept asking and getting higher altitudes and eventually got up to FLXX0. We asked ATC for the most direct heading out of the weather as we encountered moderate to extreme turbulence. ATC just responded with cleared to deviate. We deviated and eventually got out of the weather allowing us to descend and land in ZZZ1. That is when we parked; deplaned and notified the company that we encountered extreme turbulence and needed to have the airplane checked out. Weather was a big threat; it was slow moving and building all over. ATC also gave us multiple squawk code changes throughout the flight. The last one was at a low altitude while going missed which was undesirable given the situation we were in. We asked ATC multiple times about the weather conditions on the field and around the field. They were not very helpful onlysaying that storms were in all quadrants of the airport. We asked for guidance on flight paths and conditions on the field and felt the information given was not very helpful. We also asked for information and guidance from dispatch since they have the tools to see the weather radar and a bigger picture and we felt that we were constantly asking for more information about what the storms were doing but they just kept telling us that there were storms around the airport. Dispatch gave us a message that said the airport was good making us believe we could get into the airport. While on the approach; we encountered very steep descent rates and turbulence causing the airplane to pitch down about 5-10 degrees. I would get it back on a more normal descent path/rate and it would still end up pitching over and become unstable. Also we encountered some very large severe thunderstorms. Tops were around FL500 and there was very heavy rain. We just turned towards what looked like the closest edge of the thunderstorm just to get out of it. Learning from this event; I would like to improve my performance by being more aggressive with the company about delaying or canceling the flight if weather is bad and does not look like it will get better anytime soon. It was a morning flight so we were the 'guinea pig' for getting in there. I feel like we had a good plan to our alternates and ways to get around the weather. After looking back at the whole situation I feel we should have diverted before we even started descending towards the airport. We knew there were large cells all around the airport and even though we could fly visually around the storms to the approach; we could not see how the airport actually was from our position. It felt like we were being teased that the airport was clear and we just had to pick our way there. From the company to prevent this in the future; I would like to see them loosen up their desire to be so vigilant about the completion factor. There were storms all around the airport even before we took off but the whole mentality of just give it a try is not always the right thing to do. I do not know who authorizes a flight to be cancelled but I feel like if the weather actually does not look good then there shouldn't be that mentality to just give it a try and deviate if you have to. Then it messes up the whole day for that aircraft schedule. I know it's a business that makes money but its people's lives that we the pilots are in control of. We don't have luxury from sitting in our leather chairs looking at computer screens of the weather. We have to pick our way through it using dated technology that doesn't always give us the best understanding of what is going on. I would like to see dispatch be more aggressive with weather updates via ACARS messages. We can't paint a good picture of the weather from our planes like the dispatchers can. Keep us updated that is their job. They are our teammate on the ground to give us info.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: EMB145 First Officer reported encountering severe turbulence while attempting to land at the destination airport. A go-around was initiated with a diversion to a suitable alternate. The reporter did not believe that the Dispatcher or ATC provided much assistance in avoiding the weather.
Narrative: Our crew met at the airplane after we timed out the day before. When I came back from the walk around; I saw we got a second alternate added to our flight plan of ZZZ1. That is when my captain and I started discussing weather and started to form a game plan for getting to ZZZ. We noticed by looking at the radar that if we cut past a storm then go north we could come in and land Runway XX in ZZZ. I messaged dispatch before we took off asking if they thought it would be better to delay the departure and see if the storm would pass but the dispatcher responded that they did not think that would help. So we departed and started heading to ZZZ. During the flight we were messaging dispatch asking about the airport conditions in ZZZ and weather movement. We deviated around weather and descended to 13000 feet. As we were deviating getting closer to the airport; we got a message from dispatch saying the airport is good. My captain and I were thinking that we would make it to the airport if we could just get around the weather. We were still deviating and descending closer to the airport as we saw ways to avoid the weather. We asked approach how the weather was and they said thunderstorms all quadrants. We were asking for help from approach to try and get some guidance on how to get on approach but it eventually was the Captain and I that mentioned if we flew this heading for X miles we could turn and get on the approach. We were given a heading to get on the approach and ATC just said something along the lines of cleared in and visibility was 3/8 mile which is below minimums. Then about 30 seconds later after I mentioned that minimums were 1/2 mile to the captain; ATC said that visibility was a 1/2 mile. We got a message from dispatch saying if we went missed do not turn to the right because of a large cell a few miles the W of the field. We were tracking the localizer to Runway XX and close to the FAF; I asked the captain if we were cleared for the ILS approach. He queried ATC and they said that we were cleared for the ILS. It was a late clearance and the phraseology was confusing enough that we had to ask ATC again to make sure; causing us to start descending a little late on the ILS. The plane was having a hard time tracking the ILS guidance down and we were getting very fast descent rates 1000 to 2500 FPM due to the late ATC clearance causing the plane to be unstable and chase the vertical path. That is when the Autopilot kicked off from turbulence and I took over calling and initiating a go around at around 1500 feet MSL. As I called out the procedures the Captain did as asked while telling ATC we were going missed. We were given runway heading up to 3000 feet as our missed clearance. We encountered very heavy rain and my captain asked ATC for a higher altitude and that we were diverting to ZZZ1. They came back and gave us 6000 ft and direct ZZZ1 as well as being cleared to deviate around WX. Then they gave us a new squawk code for probably the 5th time that flight. My captain responded with something along the lines of 'not now' as we were task saturated at a low altitude trying to get out of the weather. We kept asking and getting higher altitudes and eventually got up to FLXX0. We asked ATC for the most direct heading out of the weather as we encountered moderate to extreme turbulence. ATC just responded with cleared to deviate. We deviated and eventually got out of the weather allowing us to descend and land in ZZZ1. That is when we parked; deplaned and notified the company that we encountered extreme turbulence and needed to have the airplane checked out. Weather was a big threat; it was slow moving and building all over. ATC also gave us multiple squawk code changes throughout the flight. The last one was at a low altitude while going missed which was undesirable given the situation we were in. We asked ATC multiple times about the weather conditions on the field and around the field. They were not very helpful onlysaying that storms were in all quadrants of the airport. We asked for guidance on flight paths and conditions on the field and felt the information given was not very helpful. We also asked for information and guidance from dispatch since they have the tools to see the weather radar and a bigger picture and we felt that we were constantly asking for more information about what the storms were doing but they just kept telling us that there were storms around the airport. Dispatch gave us a message that said the airport was good making us believe we could get into the airport. While on the approach; we encountered very steep descent rates and turbulence causing the airplane to pitch down about 5-10 degrees. I would get it back on a more normal descent path/rate and it would still end up pitching over and become unstable. Also we encountered some very large severe thunderstorms. Tops were around FL500 and there was very heavy rain. We just turned towards what looked like the closest edge of the thunderstorm just to get out of it. Learning from this event; I would like to improve my performance by being more aggressive with the company about delaying or canceling the flight if weather is bad and does not look like it will get better anytime soon. It was a morning flight so we were the 'guinea pig' for getting in there. I feel like we had a good plan to our alternates and ways to get around the weather. After looking back at the whole situation I feel we should have diverted before we even started descending towards the airport. We knew there were large cells all around the airport and even though we could fly visually around the storms to the approach; we could not see how the airport actually was from our position. It felt like we were being teased that the airport was clear and we just had to pick our way there. From the company to prevent this in the future; I would like to see them loosen up their desire to be so vigilant about the completion factor. There were storms all around the airport even before we took off but the whole mentality of just give it a try is not always the right thing to do. I do not know who authorizes a flight to be cancelled but I feel like if the weather actually does not look good then there shouldn't be that mentality to just give it a try and deviate if you have to. Then it messes up the whole day for that aircraft schedule. I know it's a business that makes money but its people's lives that we the pilots are in control of. We don't have luxury from sitting in our leather chairs looking at computer screens of the weather. We have to pick our way through it using dated technology that doesn't always give us the best understanding of what is going on. I would like to see dispatch be more aggressive with weather updates via ACARS messages. We can't paint a good picture of the weather from our planes like the dispatchers can. Keep us updated that is their job. They are our teammate on the ground to give us info.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.