37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 139062 |
Time | |
Date | 199003 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : ptw |
State Reference | PA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 4500 msl bound upper : 4500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : phl |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other |
Route In Use | departure other enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 14500 flight time type : 20 |
ASRS Report | 139062 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : overcame equipment problem other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Philadelphia approach couldn't find our oo flight plan, when they did find it, they had us return to pottstown VOR, (we did) then north on 320 degree radial, then for some reason back to potts VOR on 180 degree heading all at 4500' VFR, and taking some 15 min or more which in a jet is critical flight fuel. Then west on ny center at 5000' for 10 min and finally to cle center to 22000' in 35 min. All low level in a cpr jet. I declared to centers (ny and cle) that I was fuel critical at that altitude. But not at my flight planned of 35000'. Supervisors took over for trnees, but nothing was solving my low level delays. I continued to fort wayne with mansfield and findlay, ohio as fuel alternates if any more delays. At findlay I opted to land and refuel just in case, cancelled IFR and landed at fdy for reserve fuel. Poor and noncaring controllers at phl center. Their attitude was to me unforgivable, and put me in a fuel critical state. I'm not sure anything will come of it from centers, but west/O decisive action by myself my ship would have, or could have been in danger of running low on fuel. Educate controllers that unlike a piston aircraft, a jet only carries 3 hours total fuel, and only 1 hour at low level. That at times, west/O declaring emergency I'm in their hands, and they can indeed run jets out of fuel. The ability to declare an emergency for me is almost a sure FAA nightmare. Until they start contributing to safety rather than their over zealous, and thug type attitudes. All pilots I've checked with and myself don't want the confrontation, and worse nightmare of dealing with these out of clt people.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PLT OF LTT-CPR JET HAD DELAY IN OBTAINING IFR CLRNC FROM PHL TRACON AND ZNY ZOB. UNABLE TO OBTAIN HIGH ALT CLRNC. LOW LEVEL CAUSED UNPLANNED LNDG AT FDY FOR REFUEL.
Narrative: PHILADELPHIA APCH COULDN'T FIND OUR OO FLT PLAN, WHEN THEY DID FIND IT, THEY HAD US RETURN TO POTTSTOWN VOR, (WE DID) THEN N ON 320 DEG RADIAL, THEN FOR SOME REASON BACK TO POTTS VOR ON 180 DEG HDG ALL AT 4500' VFR, AND TAKING SOME 15 MIN OR MORE WHICH IN A JET IS CRITICAL FLT FUEL. THEN W ON NY CENTER AT 5000' FOR 10 MIN AND FINALLY TO CLE CENTER TO 22000' IN 35 MIN. ALL LOW LEVEL IN A CPR JET. I DECLARED TO CENTERS (NY AND CLE) THAT I WAS FUEL CRITICAL AT THAT ALT. BUT NOT AT MY FLT PLANNED OF 35000'. SUPVRS TOOK OVER FOR TRNEES, BUT NOTHING WAS SOLVING MY LOW LEVEL DELAYS. I CONTINUED TO FORT WAYNE WITH MANSFIELD AND FINDLAY, OHIO AS FUEL ALTERNATES IF ANY MORE DELAYS. AT FINDLAY I OPTED TO LAND AND REFUEL JUST IN CASE, CANCELLED IFR AND LANDED AT FDY FOR RESERVE FUEL. POOR AND NONCARING CTLRS AT PHL CENTER. THEIR ATTITUDE WAS TO ME UNFORGIVABLE, AND PUT ME IN A FUEL CRITICAL STATE. I'M NOT SURE ANYTHING WILL COME OF IT FROM CENTERS, BUT W/O DECISIVE ACTION BY MYSELF MY SHIP WOULD HAVE, OR COULD HAVE BEEN IN DANGER OF RUNNING LOW ON FUEL. EDUCATE CTLRS THAT UNLIKE A PISTON ACFT, A JET ONLY CARRIES 3 HRS TOTAL FUEL, AND ONLY 1 HR AT LOW LEVEL. THAT AT TIMES, W/O DECLARING EMER I'M IN THEIR HANDS, AND THEY CAN INDEED RUN JETS OUT OF FUEL. THE ABILITY TO DECLARE AN EMER FOR ME IS ALMOST A SURE FAA NIGHTMARE. UNTIL THEY START CONTRIBUTING TO SAFETY RATHER THAN THEIR OVER ZEALOUS, AND THUG TYPE ATTITUDES. ALL PLTS I'VE CHKED WITH AND MYSELF DON'T WANT THE CONFRONTATION, AND WORSE NIGHTMARE OF DEALING WITH THESE OUT OF CLT PEOPLE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.