37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1394299 |
Time | |
Date | 201610 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | ZZZ.Airport |
State Reference | US |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Skyhawk 172/Cutlass 172 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | Initial Climb |
Flight Plan | VFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Amateur/Home Built/Experimental |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | Landing Initial Climb |
Route In Use | Visual Approach |
Flight Plan | VFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Instructor Pilot Not Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Instrument Flight Crew Flight Instructor Flight Crew Commercial |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 100 Flight Crew Total 700 Flight Crew Type 600 |
Events | |
Anomaly | Conflict NMAC Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy |
Miss Distance | Horizontal 100 Vertical 100 |
Narrative:
I was entering the traffic pattern with a student; we were training in a complex airplane at an uncontrolled airport. He began to get behind the airplane; and as a result we ended up well outside of the pattern on about a two mile final approach. I was not concerned as it gave me time to talk to the student about why he ended up behind the airplane; and there was no other traffic in the pattern at the moment. As we got established on final we heard a glasair call on the radio that he was on a 7 mile final to the same runway we were using. My student and I were going to practice a short field approach; and I was doing the first demonstration once he was on final. I knew we were going to do a stop and go; but out of habit I said we were on a two mile final for a touch and go; over the radio. Another aircraft then called and said he wanted to use a parallel runway to back-taxi into position. Knowing that the chart supplement for our airport stated that no parallel operations are allowed; I keyed the mic and said we would be touching down in about 30 seconds and asked if he could wait; to which he acknowledged. In actuality; we were then still on a mile final at 70 kts. It would be another minute before we touched down.at that point; several things should have been playing through my head: first; we briefed on the radio that we would be doing a touch and go; not a stop and go. Second; the glasair is a much faster aircraft than we are; especially at our short field approach speed in a cessna 172. Finally; I had given the illusion that we would be touching down sooner than we actually were; and therefore; leaving the runway sooner. All these things combined most likely caused the glasair to continue his straight-in approach without worry. I touched down; did the short field technique; stopped; reconfigured the aircraft for a short field takeoff; my student took the controls and away we went. We didn't hear any other radio calls during that time; and as we climbed through 600 feet; about ready to turn crosswind I was wondering where the glasair was and if he was still on final or on the runway; and that's when I saw him - about 100 feet or less off our right wing and 100 feet above and making a shallow bank away to the right. The traffic pattern for that runway is also right hand traffic. Fortunately; I was with a commercial student who held us on the extended runway centerline during climb-out; and we both looked before turning right crosswind. After that; the pilot on the ground who was about to back-taxi called up the glasair on the radio and told him that his horizontal separation from us during his go-around was not sufficient; to which the glasair pilot acknowledged. The glasair got in front of us on the downwind and landed; and the rest of our flight went by without incident.now; could that glasair pilot have performed a little better go-around? Yes. He could have executed a go-around by pushing in power; raising the nose to vy; offsetting to the side of the runway opposite the traffic pattern and communicating his go-around. From my perspective; that's not the point. We learn as pilots to always be ready for a go-around and we need to be proficient at executing them; but the real kicker here is that my student and I set him up from the beginning with our faulty communication and sloppy pattern work. I am quite sure he believed we would be on and off the runway before he was on short final. Unfortunately; we put him in a situation where he had to react with a go-around. I'm just glad that he didn't hit us. Fortunately; this was a learning opportunity for both me and my student. We debriefed what occurred and why it occurred. We discussed the importance of communicating our true intentions of what we plan to do to other pilots. We discussed the benefits and risks of straight-in approaches. We talked about staying ahead of the airplane with our mind and actions. We saw firsthand why we do our best to climb out straight then always look ahead to the next leg of the traffic pattern. Finally; after recognizing our own flaws; we debriefed what his go-around should have looked like. Again; I'm glad it turned out to be a learning experience for all involved rather than a very; very bad day.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: C-172 instructor pilot reported a near miss after he gave a misleading position report with a much faster Glasair on final. The Glasair pilot executed a go-around as the Cessna was completing a stop and go.
Narrative: I was entering the traffic pattern with a student; we were training in a complex airplane at an uncontrolled airport. He began to get behind the airplane; and as a result we ended up well outside of the pattern on about a two mile final approach. I was not concerned as it gave me time to talk to the student about why he ended up behind the airplane; and there was no other traffic in the pattern at the moment. As we got established on final we heard a Glasair call on the radio that he was on a 7 mile final to the same runway we were using. My student and I were going to practice a short field approach; and I was doing the first demonstration once he was on final. I knew we were going to do a stop and go; but out of habit I said we were on a two mile final for a touch and go; over the radio. Another aircraft then called and said he wanted to use a parallel runway to back-taxi into position. Knowing that the chart supplement for our airport stated that no parallel operations are allowed; I keyed the mic and said we would be touching down in about 30 seconds and asked if he could wait; to which he acknowledged. In actuality; we were then still on a mile final at 70 kts. It would be another minute before we touched down.At that point; several things should have been playing through my head: first; we briefed on the radio that we would be doing a touch and go; not a stop and go. Second; the Glasair is a much faster aircraft than we are; especially at our short field approach speed in a Cessna 172. Finally; I had given the illusion that we would be touching down sooner than we actually were; and therefore; leaving the runway sooner. All these things combined most likely caused the Glasair to continue his straight-in approach without worry. I touched down; did the short field technique; stopped; reconfigured the aircraft for a short field takeoff; my student took the controls and away we went. We didn't hear any other radio calls during that time; and as we climbed through 600 feet; about ready to turn crosswind I was wondering where the Glasair was and if he was still on final or on the runway; and that's when I saw him - about 100 feet or less off our right wing and 100 feet above and making a shallow bank away to the right. The traffic pattern for that runway is also right hand traffic. Fortunately; I was with a commercial student who held us on the extended runway centerline during climb-out; and we both looked before turning right crosswind. After that; the pilot on the ground who was about to back-taxi called up the Glasair on the radio and told him that his horizontal separation from us during his go-around was not sufficient; to which the Glasair pilot acknowledged. The Glasair got in front of us on the downwind and landed; and the rest of our flight went by without incident.Now; could that Glasair pilot have performed a little better go-around? Yes. He could have executed a go-around by pushing in power; raising the nose to Vy; offsetting to the side of the runway opposite the traffic pattern and communicating his go-around. From my perspective; that's not the point. We learn as pilots to always be ready for a go-around and we need to be proficient at executing them; but the real kicker here is that my student and I set him up from the beginning with our faulty communication and sloppy pattern work. I am quite sure he believed we would be on and off the runway before he was on short final. Unfortunately; we put him in a situation where he had to react with a go-around. I'm just glad that he didn't hit us. Fortunately; this was a learning opportunity for both me and my student. We debriefed what occurred and why it occurred. We discussed the importance of communicating our true intentions of what we plan to do to other pilots. We discussed the benefits and risks of straight-in approaches. We talked about staying ahead of the airplane with our mind and actions. We saw firsthand why we do our best to climb out straight then always look ahead to the next leg of the traffic pattern. Finally; after recognizing our own flaws; we debriefed what his go-around should have looked like. Again; I'm glad it turned out to be a learning experience for all involved rather than a very; very bad day.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.