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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 143731 |
Time | |
Date | 199004 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lga |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 141 flight time total : 19388 flight time type : 1899 |
ASRS Report | 143731 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 190 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 1300 |
ASRS Report | 144102 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : far |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
Publication | Unspecified |
Narrative:
After crossing 22 and while waiting for clearance onto 13, we rechecked RVR on 22 and obtained a takeoff alternate from dispatch. Noted on chart page 10-9 for lga that runway 13, which was touchdown/rollout RVR, centerline lights and markings, and hi-intensity runway lights, provided standard takeoff minimums of RVR 50 or 1 for 2-ENGINE aircraft and RVR 1600 or 1/4 with 'forward visual reference' (old format). We were cleared onto runway and cleared for takeoff, with touchdown RVR 700 and rollout RVR several thousand. We departed lga under those conditions. At the time, I felt comfortable in my own mind that the takeoff was legal. (It certainly was not difficult, as the centerline markings and lights were clearly visible throughout the roll.) on arrival in minneapolis later that morning, I queried a chief pilot, an instructor pilot, and an FAA designee on the legality of that takeoff and got 3 different answers. It states in our flight operations manual: 'on runways where standard takeoff minimums are authorized, the following takeoff minimums are also authorized...'. 'Touchdown RVR 600, minimum 600, and rollout 600 provided all of the following are available... Cl... Rclm, and ... Operative touchdown and rollout RVR.' was I legal? I believe so, but cannot get a definitive answer from my company.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: BELOW MINIMUMS TKOF BY LGT AT LGA.
Narrative: AFTER XING 22 AND WHILE WAITING FOR CLRNC ONTO 13, WE RECHECKED RVR ON 22 AND OBTAINED A TKOF ALTERNATE FROM DISPATCH. NOTED ON CHART PAGE 10-9 FOR LGA THAT RWY 13, WHICH WAS TOUCHDOWN/ROLLOUT RVR, CENTERLINE LIGHTS AND MARKINGS, AND HI-INTENSITY RWY LIGHTS, PROVIDED STANDARD TKOF MINIMUMS OF RVR 50 OR 1 FOR 2-ENGINE ACFT AND RVR 1600 OR 1/4 WITH 'FORWARD VISUAL REFERENCE' (OLD FORMAT). WE WERE CLRED ONTO RWY AND CLRED FOR TKOF, WITH TOUCHDOWN RVR 700 AND ROLLOUT RVR SEVERAL THOUSAND. WE DEPARTED LGA UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS. AT THE TIME, I FELT COMFORTABLE IN MY OWN MIND THAT THE TKOF WAS LEGAL. (IT CERTAINLY WAS NOT DIFFICULT, AS THE CENTERLINE MARKINGS AND LIGHTS WERE CLEARLY VISIBLE THROUGHOUT THE ROLL.) ON ARR IN MINNEAPOLIS LATER THAT MORNING, I QUERIED A CHIEF PLT, AN INSTRUCTOR PLT, AND AN FAA DESIGNEE ON THE LEGALITY OF THAT TKOF AND GOT 3 DIFFERENT ANSWERS. IT STATES IN OUR FLT OPERATIONS MANUAL: 'ON RWYS WHERE STANDARD TKOF MINIMUMS ARE AUTHORIZED, THE FOLLOWING TKOF MINIMUMS ARE ALSO AUTHORIZED...'. 'TOUCHDOWN RVR 600, MINIMUM 600, AND ROLLOUT 600 PROVIDED ALL OF THE FOLLOWING ARE AVAILABLE... CL... RCLM, AND ... OPERATIVE TOUCHDOWN AND ROLLOUT RVR.' WAS I LEGAL? I BELIEVE SO, BUT CANNOT GET A DEFINITIVE ANSWER FROM MY COMPANY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.