Change in routing for flight crew of widebody transport freighter on descent into yip with crossing at hadar intersection. Flight crew had difficulty determining position of hadar.

Home

Browse by month

Random

Latest

About

Contact

Attributes
ACN	152027
Time
Date	199007
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : svm
State Reference	MI
Altitude	msl bound lower : 6000 msl bound upper : 7000
Environment
Flight Conditions	IMC
Light	Dusk
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zob
Operator	other
Make Model Name	Widebody, Low Wing, 4 Turbojet Eng
Navigation In Use	Other
Flight Phase	descent other
Route In Use	enroute airway : zob
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	Other
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 50 flight time total : 14500
ASRS Report	152027
Person 2
Affiliation	Other
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : instrument
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : undershoot
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

We missed ATC crossing clearance at hadar intersection on V2 from sylmer cyqo 114.2) to salem (svm 114.3). Description: IFR flight plan from jfk to yip. While on ZOB FL410 and approaching sylmer VOR (114.2) we received a descent clearance to 10000'. Just prior to sylmer zlb issued a change in our routing (from sylmer V2 to hadar intersection to cross at 6000'). We then used the area low altitude chart and detroit area chart in an effort to identify hadar intersection on V2. Using both these charts we found it very difficult to determine hadar intersection, or at least a quick positive way to determine hadar. Enclosed is a copy of both the low altitude chart and detroit area chart. Referring to these charts, it can be seen that there is no DME listed from sylmer VOR to determine hadar intersection on either chart. This would be very helpful when xferring from high altitude to low altitude charts. This lack of easy identify of hadar intersection caused much cockpit confusion and discussion. My suggestion: a DME fix be placed on these charts from sylmer VOR to hadar intersection to enable pilots a quick, positive way to determine hadar X.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: CHANGE IN ROUTING FOR FLT CREW OF WDB FREIGHTER ON DESCENT INTO YIP WITH CROSSING AT HADAR INTXN. FLT CREW HAD DIFFICULTY DETERMINING POSITION OF HADAR.

Narrative: WE MISSED ATC XING CLRNC AT HADAR INTXN ON V2 FROM SYLMER CYQO 114.2) TO SALEM (SVM 114.3). DESCRIPTION: IFR FLT PLAN FROM JFK TO YIP. WHILE ON ZOB FL410 AND APCHING SYLMER VOR (114.2) WE RECEIVED A DSNT CLRNC TO 10000'. JUST PRIOR TO SYLMER ZLB ISSUED A CHANGE IN OUR RTING (FROM SYLMER V2 TO HADAR INTXN TO CROSS AT 6000'). WE THEN USED THE AREA LOW ALT CHART AND DETROIT AREA CHART IN AN EFFORT TO IDENT HADAR INTXN ON V2. USING BOTH THESE CHARTS WE FOUND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE HADAR INTXN, OR AT LEAST A QUICK POSITIVE WAY TO DETERMINE HADAR. ENCLOSED IS A COPY OF BOTH THE LOW ALT CHART AND DETROIT AREA CHART. REFERRING TO THESE CHARTS, IT CAN BE SEEN THAT THERE IS NO DME LISTED FROM SYLMER VOR TO DETERMINE HADAR INTXN ON EITHER CHART. THIS WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL WHEN XFERRING FROM HIGH ALT TO LOW ALT CHARTS. THIS LACK OF EASY IDENT OF HADAR INTXN CAUSED MUCH COCKPIT CONFUSION AND DISCUSSION. MY SUGGESTION: A DME FIX BE PLACED ON THESE CHARTS FROM SYLMER VOR TO HADAR INTXN TO ENABLE PLTS A QUICK, POSITIVE WAY TO DETERMINE HADAR X.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.