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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 156067 |
Time | |
Date | 199009 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dca |
State Reference | DC |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : dca |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing other |
Route In Use | approach : visual arrival other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Small Transport |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing other |
Route In Use | approach : visual arrival other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 12800 flight time type : 1400 |
ASRS Report | 156067 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 7500 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 156069 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe incursion : landing without clearance non adherence : far |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 1500 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were following a company medium large transport down the river for the visibility to 18 in dca. As they were in trail and slowing, we also reduced our speed to minimum for a landing behind them. About 2 mi out we were turning in to line up with 18. Our company was on the ground and rolling out. They were going too fast to turn off at taxiway F or east and the controller I believe advised them at first to clear on runway 21, but then changed his mind and said continue to the end. A second later the tower, I believe, ok'd a turn onto runway 21. Anyway, the problem also for the controller was he had an small transport Y on final at almost exactly the same distance from runway 21 as we were from 18. In fact, it was an obvious dead heat for the airport. As we were about 1 mi out for 18 the small transport Y was about 1 mi out for 21. The company aircraft decided it was a good time to tell the controller, 'why don't you guys make up your minds,' etc, which got some response from the controllers. By this time, we were in the flare and it's possible the tower gave us a clearance to land, but we were not sure. In any case, our company was well clear of 18. It was also possible that the small transport Y was told to hold short of 18, but we didn't hear that either. At this point, it appeared by far that landing and stopping short of runway 21 would be the safest thing to do. Because, if we decided to go around, there was a chance that small transport Y might also be told to go around in the confusion, thus creating an interesting meeting at the intersection of runways 18 and 21. Less wasteful ridiculous bs on the frequency would have certainly helped us.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR MLG LANDED RWY 18 WITHOUT LNDG CLRNC WHILE AN SMT WAS LNDG RWY 21. FREQ CONGESTION DIDN'T ALLOW A LNDG CLRNC CONFIRMATION.
Narrative: WE WERE FOLLOWING A COMPANY MLG DOWN THE RIVER FOR THE VIS TO 18 IN DCA. AS THEY WERE IN TRAIL AND SLOWING, WE ALSO REDUCED OUR SPD TO MINIMUM FOR A LNDG BEHIND THEM. ABOUT 2 MI OUT WE WERE TURNING IN TO LINE UP WITH 18. OUR COMPANY WAS ON THE GND AND ROLLING OUT. THEY WERE GOING TOO FAST TO TURN OFF AT TXWY F OR E AND THE CTLR I BELIEVE ADVISED THEM AT FIRST TO CLR ON RWY 21, BUT THEN CHANGED HIS MIND AND SAID CONTINUE TO THE END. A SECOND LATER THE TWR, I BELIEVE, OK'D A TURN ONTO RWY 21. ANYWAY, THE PROB ALSO FOR THE CTLR WAS HE HAD AN SMT Y ON FINAL AT ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME DISTANCE FROM RWY 21 AS WE WERE FROM 18. IN FACT, IT WAS AN OBVIOUS DEAD HEAT FOR THE ARPT. AS WE WERE ABOUT 1 MI OUT FOR 18 THE SMT Y WAS ABOUT 1 MI OUT FOR 21. THE COMPANY ACFT DECIDED IT WAS A GOOD TIME TO TELL THE CTLR, 'WHY DON'T YOU GUYS MAKE UP YOUR MINDS,' ETC, WHICH GOT SOME RESPONSE FROM THE CTLRS. BY THIS TIME, WE WERE IN THE FLARE AND IT'S POSSIBLE THE TWR GAVE US A CLRNC TO LAND, BUT WE WERE NOT SURE. IN ANY CASE, OUR COMPANY WAS WELL CLR OF 18. IT WAS ALSO POSSIBLE THAT THE SMT Y WAS TOLD TO HOLD SHORT OF 18, BUT WE DIDN'T HEAR THAT EITHER. AT THIS POINT, IT APPEARED BY FAR THAT LNDG AND STOPPING SHORT OF RWY 21 WOULD BE THE SAFEST THING TO DO. BECAUSE, IF WE DECIDED TO GO AROUND, THERE WAS A CHANCE THAT SMT Y MIGHT ALSO BE TOLD TO GO AROUND IN THE CONFUSION, THUS CREATING AN INTERESTING MEETING AT THE INTXN OF RWYS 18 AND 21. LESS WASTEFUL RIDICULOUS BS ON THE FREQ WOULD HAVE CERTAINLY HELPED US.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.