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ATIS approach information. Lengthy ATIS information.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 156149 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199009 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : mia |
| State Reference | FL |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 3000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : cle tracon : mia artcc : zdc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 600 |
| ASRS Report | 156149 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Air carrier X inbound to mia and cle. ATIS at mia and cle issued following information: 'approach in use ILS runway xx...NOTAMS G/south OTS.' what they really meant was 'localizer approach to runway xx.' in today's busy ATC environment with 2-M cockpit crews, ATC can lead a flight crew down the primrose path expecting an ILS instead of localizer. Upon questioning mia approach said a localizer approach does not exist for 09L at mia, but only for ILS (with G/south OTS). This is not safe. Last night I listened to the cle ATIS (information 'a' or 'P,' depending on which letter you listened to on their information) for 5 mins before I deciphered that they were doing a localizer only approach. Try this with multi vectors, huge line, long runway 23L OTS all summer and an ATIS giving a 5 min spiel to state they were shooting 23L localizer only, sidestep to 23R, 23R VASI OTS!! Please tell FAA a localizer approach is localizer, not ILS! Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following: reporter was contacted about clearance interpretation. Analyst explained FAA policy as to the phraseology used for approach clearance and the information advertised on the ATIS. The mia supervisor was correct in his explanation to the reporter. The approach is advertised as it is listed on the approach plate. Reporter then complained about the length of ATIS information. Analyst said this sometimes becomes a problem and the reporter should reporter it to the supervisor of the particular facility.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ATIS APCH INFO. LENGTHY ATIS INFORMATION.
Narrative: ACR X INBND TO MIA AND CLE. ATIS AT MIA AND CLE ISSUED FOLLOWING INFO: 'APCH IN USE ILS RWY XX...NOTAMS G/S OTS.' WHAT THEY REALLY MEANT WAS 'LOC APCH TO RWY XX.' IN TODAY'S BUSY ATC ENVIRONMENT WITH 2-M COCKPIT CREWS, ATC CAN LEAD A FLT CREW DOWN THE PRIMROSE PATH EXPECTING AN ILS INSTEAD OF LOC. UPON QUESTIONING MIA APCH SAID A LOC APCH DOES NOT EXIST FOR 09L AT MIA, BUT ONLY FOR ILS (WITH G/S OTS). THIS IS NOT SAFE. LAST NIGHT I LISTENED TO THE CLE ATIS (INFO 'A' OR 'P,' DEPENDING ON WHICH LETTER YOU LISTENED TO ON THEIR INFO) FOR 5 MINS BEFORE I DECIPHERED THAT THEY WERE DOING A LOC ONLY APCH. TRY THIS WITH MULTI VECTORS, HUGE LINE, LONG RWY 23L OTS ALL SUMMER AND AN ATIS GIVING A 5 MIN SPIEL TO STATE THEY WERE SHOOTING 23L LOC ONLY, SIDESTEP TO 23R, 23R VASI OTS!! PLEASE TELL FAA A LOC APCH IS LOC, NOT ILS! CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING: RPTR WAS CONTACTED ABOUT CLRNC INTERP. ANALYST EXPLAINED FAA POLICY AS TO THE PHRASEOLOGY USED FOR APCH CLRNC AND THE INFO ADVERTISED ON THE ATIS. THE MIA SUPVR WAS CORRECT IN HIS EXPLANATION TO THE RPTR. THE APCH IS ADVERTISED AS IT IS LISTED ON THE APCH PLATE. RPTR THEN COMPLAINED ABOUT THE LENGTH OF ATIS INFO. ANALYST SAID THIS SOMETIMES BECOMES A PROB AND THE RPTR SHOULD RPTR IT TO THE SUPVR OF THE PARTICULAR FAC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.