37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1584687 |
Time | |
Date | 201810 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801-2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | DTW.Airport |
State Reference | MI |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Marginal |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport Low Wing 2 Turbojet Eng |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | First Officer Pilot Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) Flight Crew Instrument Flight Crew Multiengine |
Events | |
Anomaly | Deviation - Altitude Crossing Restriction Not Met Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy |
Narrative:
Originally filed and cleared route involved the LECTR1 arrival; from torrr transition. ATC instruction to 'descend and maintain 17;000 feet.' after passing torrr the next ATC instruction was to proceed 'direct hanbl.' next ATC instruction was to 'descend via HANBL1.' initial thought was to cross hanbl at or above 11;000 feet and 260 knots; but that's on the hanbl.LECTR1 arrival; and not on the hanbl.HANBL1 arrival. That restriction is between 17;000 feet and 280 knots. Same fix name; different restriction. While still approaching 17;000 feet during the descent and querying ATC; we were instructed to 'descend and maintain 15;000 feet.' cause was too much similarity between the arrival names hanbl.HANBL1 and hanbl.LECTR1. There is too much similarity between the fix names that make up both arrivals; yet there are different speed and altitude restrictions using the same fix names. Lots of back and forth into kdtw lately between filed arrivals; then cleared arrival; only to get rerouted back to the original. Suggest not having the same fix names on multiple arrivals; or keeping the speed and altitude restrictions to said fixes the same amongst all the different arrivals that include that specific fix name. The names hanbl.HANBL1 and hanbl.LECTR1 as different arrivals are difficult to differentiate from each other since they are so easily associated together as one entity.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: Air carrier Captain reported the different crossing altitudes proscribed for the same fix on two different STARS into DTW creates confusion that could lead to airborne conflict.
Narrative: Originally filed and cleared route involved the LECTR1 arrival; from TORRR transition. ATC instruction to 'Descend and maintain 17;000 feet.' After passing TORRR the next ATC instruction was to proceed 'Direct HANBL.' Next ATC instruction was to 'Descend via HANBL1.' Initial thought was to cross HANBL at or above 11;000 feet and 260 knots; but that's on the HANBL.LECTR1 arrival; and not on the HANBL.HANBL1 arrival. That restriction is between 17;000 feet and 280 knots. Same fix name; different restriction. While still approaching 17;000 feet during the descent and querying ATC; we were instructed to 'Descend and maintain 15;000 feet.' Cause was too much similarity between the arrival names HANBL.HANBL1 and HANBL.LECTR1. There is too much similarity between the fix names that make up both arrivals; yet there are different speed and altitude restrictions using the same fix names. Lots of back and forth into KDTW lately between filed arrivals; then cleared arrival; only to get rerouted back to the original. Suggest not having the same fix names on multiple arrivals; or keeping the speed and altitude restrictions to said fixes the same amongst all the different arrivals that include that specific fix name. The names HANBL.HANBL1 and HANBL.LECTR1 as different arrivals are difficult to differentiate from each other since they are so easily associated together as one entity.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.