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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1595816 |
Time | |
Date | 201811 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801-2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | ZZZ.Airport |
State Reference | US |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | EMB ERJ 170/175 ER/LR |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Takeoff |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Takeoff |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Procedural Clearance |
Narrative:
While taxiing west for departure; we were cleared by the tower controller to 'taxi into position and hold.' the questionable matter was [that] there was [another air carrier; aircraft Y;] in front of us at the hold short line that was not moving. I thought that there was a probability that the aircraft sequence of taxi to takeoff could have been out-of-order because aircraft Y was stopped at the hold short line. Seeing that aircraft Y was still not moving; my read-back to tower was more of an interrogative than an acceptance. Tower then asked me if we were not yet ready. My reply was that we are ready; but my tone was that of observing aircraft Y still not yet moving; causing the order of these events to seem questionable for us to taxi into position. By this time; aircraft Y slowly; and I do mean slowly; began to taxi past the hold short line and onto the runway. We then continued to taxi; made the turn off of taxiway towards the runway environment; and aircraft Y continued to take more time than usual to power up and takeoff. Finally; aircraft Y powered up; released their brakes; and started to roll.as aircraft Y's takeoff roll commenced; we crossed the hold short line to taxi into position and hold. As we were rolling into position; the tower controller cleared us for takeoff. Aircraft Y was clearly still on the runway continuing their takeoff roll; from my perspective; they were not yet even halfway down the runway. As a pilot should communicate anything that appears to be out of the realm of normal operational safety; I read back close to these words; 'aircraft X cleared for takeoff 8R as soon as aircraft Y gets airborne.' at this time; the tower controller cancelled our takeoff clearance. This seemed normal and fine to me; but then he said to copy a phone number and call the tower as if what I did was wrong or unsafe.the captain chose to call right away instead of calling after arriving in destination airport as tower suggested. We taxied off the runway for the phone call. The tower supervisor was upset; and the tower controller was mad because they said that they were operating fully within their acceptable parameters. They accused us of not being ready and interrupting their flow of departures. The captain asked if any violations occurred on our part; and the reply was 'no.'whenever something appears unsafe; unusual; inaccurate; or questionable; it is fully within the responsibility and duty of a pilot to verify; inform; or question the situation. It is also fully expected for the pilot to either accept or reject a given clearance. Anytime this happens; no air traffic controller should ridicule or punish the pilot - ever. Furthermore; no air traffic controller should put a pilot into a questionable situation (ATC does this often). The field of aviation requires communication and cooperation from all parties at any given moment. Over my 4 decades of professional aviation; I have seen the pendulum swing back-and-forth between pilots and ATC; from attitudes of animosity; to cooperation; to animosity. This display by the tower supervisor reveals renewed animosity. Their unprofessional attitude of refusal to re-assess a pilot's observations and communication for the purpose of safety is uncalled for. They became over-focused on the 'assembly line' mentality of pushing airplanes out rather than ensuring each situation is safe. Even if they believed they were operating within their acceptable parameters; they would do well to realize that acceptable parameters do not always guarantee practical and safe events. Their challenging of pilots and insisting pilots call them when pilots do their job responsibly; reflects the lack of cooperation and safety by tower personnel that night.these two air traffic controllers have taken the word controller beyond the scope of its intended authority. They are headed for unfavorable results for air traffic if they are not corrected. Their role as air traffic controllers is notto bark orders and throw their weight around. This is not a military environment. This is a commercial; civilian environment; moving people for pleasure and business. Safety in the aviation field requires cooperative communication between ATC and pilots. Safe coordination by the accepting; amending; rejecting; and the verifying of any situation that in the observation of either pilot or ATC deems worthy of accepting; rejecting; amending; or verifying will result. Tower should be advised to back off and re-focus.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: Air Carrier pilot reported their takeoff clearance was cancelled after they questioned the timing of the Controller's clearance.
Narrative: While taxiing west for departure; we were cleared by the Tower Controller to 'Taxi into Position and Hold.' The questionable matter was [that] there was [another air carrier; Aircraft Y;] in front of us at the Hold Short Line that was not moving. I thought that there was a probability that the aircraft sequence of taxi to takeoff could have been out-of-order because Aircraft Y was stopped at the Hold Short Line. Seeing that Aircraft Y was still not moving; my read-back to Tower was more of an interrogative than an acceptance. Tower then asked me if we were not yet ready. My reply was that we are ready; but my tone was that of observing Aircraft Y still not yet moving; causing the order of these events to seem questionable for us to taxi into position. By this time; Aircraft Y slowly; and I do mean slowly; began to taxi past the Hold Short Line and onto the runway. We then continued to taxi; made the turn off of taxiway towards the runway environment; and Aircraft Y continued to take more time than usual to power up and takeoff. Finally; Aircraft Y powered up; released their brakes; and started to roll.As Aircraft Y's takeoff roll commenced; we crossed the Hold Short Line to taxi into position and hold. As we were rolling into position; the Tower Controller cleared us for takeoff. Aircraft Y was clearly still on the runway continuing their takeoff roll; from my perspective; they were not yet even halfway down the runway. As a pilot should communicate anything that appears to be out of the realm of normal operational safety; I read back close to these words; 'Aircraft X cleared for takeoff 8R as soon as Aircraft Y gets airborne.' At this time; the Tower Controller cancelled our takeoff clearance. This seemed normal and fine to me; but then he said to copy a phone number and call the Tower as if what I did was wrong or unsafe.The Captain chose to call right away instead of calling after arriving in destination airport as Tower suggested. We taxied off the runway for the phone call. The Tower Supervisor was upset; and the Tower Controller was mad because they said that they were operating fully within their acceptable parameters. They accused us of not being ready and interrupting their flow of departures. The Captain asked if any violations occurred on our part; and the reply was 'No.'Whenever something appears unsafe; unusual; inaccurate; or questionable; it is FULLY within the responsibility and duty of a pilot to verify; inform; or question the situation. It is also FULLY expected for the pilot to either accept or reject a given clearance. Anytime this happens; NO Air Traffic Controller should ridicule or punish the pilot - EVER. Furthermore; no Air Traffic Controller should put a pilot into a questionable situation (ATC does this often). The field of aviation REQUIRES communication and cooperation from all parties at any given moment. Over my 4 decades of professional aviation; I have seen the pendulum swing back-and-forth between pilots and ATC; from attitudes of animosity; to cooperation; to animosity. This display by the Tower Supervisor reveals renewed animosity. Their unprofessional attitude of refusal to re-assess a pilot's observations and communication for the purpose of safety is uncalled for. They became over-focused on the 'assembly line' mentality of pushing airplanes out rather than ensuring each situation is safe. Even if they believed they were operating within their acceptable parameters; they would do well to realize that acceptable parameters do NOT always guarantee practical and safe events. Their challenging of pilots and insisting pilots call them when pilots do their job responsibly; reflects the lack of cooperation and safety by Tower personnel that night.These two air traffic controllers have taken the word controller beyond the scope of its intended authority. They are headed for unfavorable results for air traffic if they are not corrected. Their role as air traffic controllers is notto bark orders and throw their weight around. This is not a military environment. This is a commercial; civilian environment; moving people for pleasure and business. Safety in the aviation field requires cooperative communication between ATC and pilots. Safe coordination by the accepting; amending; rejecting; and the verifying of ANY situation that in the observation of either pilot or ATC deems worthy of accepting; rejecting; amending; or verifying will result. Tower should be advised to back off and re-focus.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.