37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 161590 |
Time | |
Date | 199011 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : dfw |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 19000 msl bound upper : 20200 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zfw tower : cvg |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other descent other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | other |
Make Model Name | Military Transport |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 161590 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 1600 |
ASRS Report | 161707 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot conflict : airborne less severe inflight encounter : weather non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 30000 vertical : 800 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
On initial level off at 10000', the captain stated we overshot by 250'. I noticed our altimeters were off--first officer's reading approximately 100' lower. Then we were assigned a heading by ZFW and assigned an altitude to climb to of FL230. Passing about 17000' we broke out of the WX and noticed a thunderstorm bldg directly in front of us at about 10-15 mi. The captain then asked ATC for clearance to deviate 15 degrees to the left. With the radio talk from other aircraft, by the time ATC gave us deviation clearance we had to turn further to avoid the WX. The captain instructed me to avoid the WX, which I did by turning an additional 20-30 degrees. At this time we were climbing through FL200. Center asked us our heading and gave us a vector directly into the WX. The captain would not accept it for another 15 mi. At this time we were instructed by ATC to descend immediately to FL190 to avoid traffic in our 11-12 O'clock position, which we did. The ensuing conversation explained the reason for the vector. If it were possible for ATC to advise us of the best possible route (for traffic considerations), during rapidly changing WX conditions, that would be very helpful. For example, if they would have indicated deviating to the right would have been more helpful than deviating to the left. We would have complied and gone to the right. Supplemental information from acn 161707: ZFW asked if we could go direct to txk. With nothing showing on radar but light rain accepted clearance. Shortly thereafter broke out of clouds and got a visibility on a circuit breaker our 11-1 O'clock that didn't show on radar. Requested left deviation of 15 degrees. Clearance approved and climb clearance to FL230 given. With the delay on receiving deviation clearance and we were in need of more deviation, first officer flying deviated about 35 degrees to the left. Center supervisor overrode duty controller and said immediate descent to FL190, 6 mi traffic. When we reached FL190 supervisor said we deviated 40 degrees and were in conflict with traffic. I said WX popped up that we didn't see before. I should have reported the additional heading change needed after I saw 15 degrees wasn't enough. Need to lead deviation request in case frequency is jammed by as much time as possible; but in this case, it was just discovered and frequency was very busy.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MLG FLT CREW GIVEN WX DEVIATION APPROVAL FOR 15 DEGREE COURSE CHANGE, TURNED 40 DEGREES AND HAD LESS THAN STANDARD SEPARATION WITH AN MLT.
Narrative: ON INITIAL LEVEL OFF AT 10000', THE CAPT STATED WE OVERSHOT BY 250'. I NOTICED OUR ALTIMETERS WERE OFF--F/O'S READING APPROX 100' LOWER. THEN WE WERE ASSIGNED A HDG BY ZFW AND ASSIGNED AN ALT TO CLB TO OF FL230. PASSING ABOUT 17000' WE BROKE OUT OF THE WX AND NOTICED A TSTM BLDG DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF US AT ABOUT 10-15 MI. THE CAPT THEN ASKED ATC FOR CLRNC TO DEVIATE 15 DEGS TO THE LEFT. WITH THE RADIO TALK FROM OTHER ACFT, BY THE TIME ATC GAVE US DEVIATION CLRNC WE HAD TO TURN FURTHER TO AVOID THE WX. THE CAPT INSTRUCTED ME TO AVOID THE WX, WHICH I DID BY TURNING AN ADDITIONAL 20-30 DEGS. AT THIS TIME WE WERE CLBING THROUGH FL200. CENTER ASKED US OUR HDG AND GAVE US A VECTOR DIRECTLY INTO THE WX. THE CAPT WOULD NOT ACCEPT IT FOR ANOTHER 15 MI. AT THIS TIME WE WERE INSTRUCTED BY ATC TO DSND IMMEDIATELY TO FL190 TO AVOID TFC IN OUR 11-12 O'CLOCK POS, WHICH WE DID. THE ENSUING CONVERSATION EXPLAINED THE REASON FOR THE VECTOR. IF IT WERE POSSIBLE FOR ATC TO ADVISE US OF THE BEST POSSIBLE RTE (FOR TFC CONSIDERATIONS), DURING RAPIDLY CHANGING WX CONDITIONS, THAT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL. FOR EXAMPLE, IF THEY WOULD HAVE INDICATED DEVIATING TO THE RIGHT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE HELPFUL THAN DEVIATING TO THE LEFT. WE WOULD HAVE COMPLIED AND GONE TO THE RIGHT. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 161707: ZFW ASKED IF WE COULD GO DIRECT TO TXK. WITH NOTHING SHOWING ON RADAR BUT LIGHT RAIN ACCEPTED CLRNC. SHORTLY THEREAFTER BROKE OUT OF CLOUDS AND GOT A VIS ON A CB OUR 11-1 O'CLOCK THAT DIDN'T SHOW ON RADAR. REQUESTED LEFT DEVIATION OF 15 DEGS. CLRNC APPROVED AND CLB CLRNC TO FL230 GIVEN. WITH THE DELAY ON RECEIVING DEVIATION CLRNC AND WE WERE IN NEED OF MORE DEVIATION, F/O FLYING DEVIATED ABOUT 35 DEGS TO THE LEFT. CENTER SUPVR OVERRODE DUTY CTLR AND SAID IMMEDIATE DSNT TO FL190, 6 MI TFC. WHEN WE REACHED FL190 SUPVR SAID WE DEVIATED 40 DEGS AND WERE IN CONFLICT WITH TFC. I SAID WX POPPED UP THAT WE DIDN'T SEE BEFORE. I SHOULD HAVE RPTED THE ADDITIONAL HDG CHANGE NEEDED AFTER I SAW 15 DEGS WASN'T ENOUGH. NEED TO LEAD DEVIATION REQUEST IN CASE FREQ IS JAMMED BY AS MUCH TIME AS POSSIBLE; BUT IN THIS CASE, IT WAS JUST DISCOVERED AND FREQ WAS VERY BUSY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.