37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1651362 |
Time | |
Date | 201906 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | SFO.Airport |
State Reference | CA |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | B777 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Route In Use | STAR PIRAT2 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Captain Pilot Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Multiengine Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) Flight Crew Instrument |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 179 Flight Crew Total 13106 Flight Crew Type 1635 |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy |
Narrative:
Have a procedural complaint about new arrival into sfo. The PIRAT2 RNAV arrival is new and for a while was not being used by ATC. Old arrival procedure was direct pirat - cross pirat at 10;000 [feet]. New procedure has numerous step down fixes; altitudes; and speeds. Today we were filed PIRAT2 and when we got in radar contact with oakland; were given direct pirat; cross at 10;000 [feet]. RNAV procedure says pirat 15;000 [feet] or below. Fix prior to pirat has speed at 260 kts.; so we asked 'do you need a speed at pirat?'; ATC says no. So now I'm wondering are we on the arrival or not. ATC never said descend via; or cancel PIRAT2. From pirat on; there are two more fixes/speeds. Do we need to follow the path or not? Now a frequency change and a very busy controller; who say expect vectors for ILS. I was confused as what we should doing. All worked out; but this has happened to me before; and ATC needs to get verbiage correct; i.e. 'Cleared to descend via PIRAT2; except cross pirat at 10;000 [feet]' or something else. I know the fix is to just ask; but sometimes you don't have time to go into a whole dissertation as to what ATC expects.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B777 Captain reported unclear instructions from ATC.
Narrative: Have a procedural complaint about new arrival into SFO. The PIRAT2 RNAV arrival is new and for a while was not being used by ATC. Old arrival procedure was direct PIRAT - cross PIRAT at 10;000 [feet]. New procedure has numerous step down fixes; altitudes; and speeds. Today we were filed PIRAT2 and when we got in radar contact with Oakland; were given direct PIRAT; cross at 10;000 [feet]. RNAV procedure says PIRAT 15;000 [feet] or below. Fix prior to PIRAT has speed at 260 kts.; so we asked 'Do you need a speed at PIRAT?'; ATC says no. So now I'm wondering are we on the arrival or not. ATC never said descend via; or cancel PIRAT2. From PIRAT on; there are two more fixes/speeds. Do we need to follow the path or not? Now a frequency change and a very busy controller; who say expect vectors for ILS. I was confused as what we should doing. All worked out; but this has happened to me before; and ATC needs to get verbiage correct; i.e. 'cleared to descend via PIRAT2; except cross PIRAT at 10;000 [feet]' or something else. I know the fix is to just ask; but sometimes you don't have time to go into a whole dissertation as to what ATC expects.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.