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A321 captain reported not accepting a 'climb via' clearance while on the lax dotts 2 SID due to lack of communications between controllers. The event led to non-standard communication between the crew and the controller.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 1677724 |
| Time | |
| Date | 201907 |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801-2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | ZLA.ARTCC |
| State Reference | CA |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Make Model Name | A321 |
| Flight Phase | Climb |
| Route In Use | SID DOTSS 2 |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Function | Pilot Flying Captain |
| Qualification | Flight Crew Multiengine Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) Flight Crew Instrument |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Procedural Other / Unknown |
Narrative:
Departing lax; checked in with socal on frequency 124.3. Climbing via the dotss 2 departure except maintain 5;000 [feet]. As with virtually every departure off lax; we were cleared 'climb and maintain 17;000.' socal never issues 'climb via'. Switched to next frequency 119.95 and was issued 'climb via; except maintain 19;000.' as we were heavy; were not given any prior restrictions on speed or altitude and shortcuts on the departure; we said 'unable climb via' as there was an above altitude of 15;000 [feet] at dotss intersection ahead. The reissuing of a via clearance after being unrestricted is not practical if ATC needs the restrictions. Upon stating 'unable climb via' to ATC; [ATC] got very snappy with us and said: 'the last controller was to give 'climb via'.' we advised they never do and didn't this time either. Next ATC command was: 'slow to 250 kts or you will hit an aircraft at 14;000'.' we complied with the 250 kts; didn't hear anything further and didn't hit any airplanes.socal always gives climb and maintain off lax. If la center on next frequency wants or needs a 'climb via' then some communication between ATC facilities needs to happen ahead of time. No need to blame pilots for following ATC instructions.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A321 Captain reported not accepting a 'climb via' clearance while on the LAX DOTTS 2 SID due to lack of communications between controllers. The event led to non-standard communication between the crew and the Controller.
Narrative: Departing LAX; checked in with SoCal on frequency 124.3. Climbing via the DOTSS 2 departure except maintain 5;000 [feet]. As with virtually every departure off LAX; we were cleared 'climb and maintain 17;000.' SoCal never issues 'climb via'. Switched to next frequency 119.95 and was issued 'Climb via; except maintain 19;000.' As we were heavy; were not given any prior restrictions on speed or altitude and shortcuts on the departure; we said 'unable climb via' as there was an above altitude of 15;000 [feet] at DOTSS intersection ahead. The reissuing of a via clearance after being unrestricted is not practical if ATC needs the restrictions. Upon stating 'unable climb via' to ATC; [ATC] got very snappy with us and said: 'The last Controller was to give 'climb via'.' We advised they never do and didn't this time either. Next ATC command was: 'Slow to 250 kts or you will hit an aircraft at 14;000'.' We complied with the 250 kts; didn't hear anything further and didn't hit any airplanes.SoCal always gives climb and maintain off LAX. If LA Center on next frequency wants or needs a 'climb via' then some communication between ATC facilities needs to happen ahead of time. No need to blame pilots for following ATC instructions.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.