37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 1685378 |
Time | |
Date | 201909 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | HNL.Airport |
State Reference | HI |
Environment | |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | B737-800 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Taxi |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Pilot Not Flying First Officer |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) Flight Crew Multiengine Flight Crew Instrument |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 417 Flight Crew Type 4920 |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Procedural Clearance Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy |
Narrative:
After completion of the before taxi checklist; I called ground for taxi clearance. We were cleared to 'taxi to runway 8R via alpha.' nearing the approach end of runway 8L; and now monitoring tower; I made a verbal comment to the captain; such as 'we are going to hold short of runway 8L; correct?' he responded with 'no; we are cleared to taxi to runway 8R; so we can cross all runways along our path to the assigned runway.' I responded by saying 'don't think that's correct; can we just hold short here (meaning runway 8L)?' the CRM was good and the captain was very willing to stop short of runway 8L so we could query the tower controller on the somewhat congested tower frequency. As I was about to query; tower contacted us with a takeoff clearance for runway 8L. After running the departure plan and before takeoff checklists; we departed on runway 8L uneventfully.I think; in hindsight; the ground controller meant to give us a taxi clearance to runway 8L; not runway 8R; like we copied and read back. We were late to notice that alpha does continue across the south side of runway 8L; but from there; continuing via romeo-bravo is the only option to continue taxiing to runway 8R.more importantly; in the next few days of the pairing; the captain and I both brought up the circumstances with other pilots; and there were mixed responses as to the legality of crossing other runways on a clearance to the assigned departure runway. My understanding is that this used to be valid; but the far changed several years ago; now requiring ATC to instruct you to either hold short of; or cross any and all runways along the assigned route to the departure runway. The reference I found is aim 4-3-18. Since there was disagreement; not just between the captain and I; but among other company pilots with whom we spoke; perhaps this topic is worthy of review among the pilot group.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 First Officer reported taxi clearance confusion to a departure runway; allowing the crossing of runway along the taxi route.
Narrative: After completion of the Before Taxi Checklist; I called Ground for taxi clearance. We were cleared to 'Taxi to Runway 8R via Alpha.' Nearing the approach end of Runway 8L; and now monitoring Tower; I made a verbal comment to the Captain; such as 'we are going to hold short of Runway 8L; correct?' He responded with 'No; we are cleared to taxi to Runway 8R; so we can cross all runways along our path to the assigned Runway.' I responded by saying 'don't think that's correct; can we just hold short here (meaning Runway 8L)?' The CRM was good and the Captain was very willing to stop short of Runway 8L so we could query the Tower Controller on the somewhat congested Tower frequency. As I was about to query; Tower contacted us with a takeoff clearance for Runway 8L. After running the Departure Plan and Before Takeoff Checklists; we departed on Runway 8L uneventfully.I think; in hindsight; the Ground Controller meant to give us a taxi clearance to Runway 8L; not Runway 8R; like we copied and read back. We were late to notice that Alpha does continue across the south side of Runway 8L; but from there; continuing via Romeo-Bravo is the only option to continue taxiing to Runway 8R.More importantly; in the next few days of the pairing; the Captain and I both brought up the circumstances with other pilots; and there were mixed responses as to the legality of crossing other runways on a clearance to the assigned Departure Runway. My understanding is that this used to be valid; but the FAR changed several years ago; now requiring ATC to instruct you to either hold short of; or cross any and all runways along the assigned route to the Departure Runway. The reference I found is AIM 4-3-18. Since there was disagreement; not just between the Captain and I; but among other Company pilots with whom we spoke; perhaps this topic is worthy of review among the pilot group.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.