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Commuter small transport penetrates R2510.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 173375 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199103 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : ipl |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 8000 msl bound upper : 8000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Small Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 3600 flight time type : 2300 |
| ASRS Report | 173375 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 1700 flight time type : 90 |
| ASRS Report | 173696 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance non adherence : far other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
IFR flight from imperial, ca to san on V66. I asked center controller for deviation to the north for thunderstorm avoidance. He approved it as long as I remained clear of restr area 2510 west of imperial. There was no way to determine our location in relation to the restr area, as we were in IMC conditions trying to avoid a thunderstorm. After deviating slightly to the north, the sector controller said, 'turn left heading 180 degrees, vectors out of the restr area.' it seems my only choices here are to risk structural damage to the aircraft or loose my ATP for violating restr airspace. It would be an enormous help to allow aircraft deviating for severe WX to use restr airspace for that purpose. Supplemental information from acn 173696: I requested deviation from controller and controller responded with deviation approved, but remain clear of restr area 2510. I then showed captain restr area on chart, and said I thought it was about 5 mi off arwy. Captain turned aircraft about 20 degrees right of course for a few mins, then turned and paralleled the course. As I thought we were getting closer to restr area, I told captain I thought it was less than 5 mi off the arwy. He said that there was no way to know if we were in restr area or not. I considered advising center of the situation, but frequency was extremely congested. Then controller responded by saying to turn to left heading 180 degrees, vector out of restr area. Captain then turned aircraft as instructed.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: COMMUTER SMT PENETRATES R2510.
Narrative: IFR FLT FROM IMPERIAL, CA TO SAN ON V66. I ASKED CENTER CTLR FOR DEVIATION TO THE N FOR TSTM AVOIDANCE. HE APPROVED IT AS LONG AS I REMAINED CLR OF RESTR AREA 2510 W OF IMPERIAL. THERE WAS NO WAY TO DETERMINE OUR LOCATION IN RELATION TO THE RESTR AREA, AS WE WERE IN IMC CONDITIONS TRYING TO AVOID A TSTM. AFTER DEVIATING SLIGHTLY TO THE N, THE SECTOR CTLR SAID, 'TURN LEFT HDG 180 DEGS, VECTORS OUT OF THE RESTR AREA.' IT SEEMS MY ONLY CHOICES HERE ARE TO RISK STRUCTURAL DAMAGE TO THE ACFT OR LOOSE MY ATP FOR VIOLATING RESTR AIRSPACE. IT WOULD BE AN ENORMOUS HELP TO ALLOW ACFT DEVIATING FOR SEVERE WX TO USE RESTR AIRSPACE FOR THAT PURPOSE. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 173696: I REQUESTED DEVIATION FROM CTLR AND CTLR RESPONDED WITH DEVIATION APPROVED, BUT REMAIN CLR OF RESTR AREA 2510. I THEN SHOWED CAPT RESTR AREA ON CHART, AND SAID I THOUGHT IT WAS ABOUT 5 MI OFF ARWY. CAPT TURNED ACFT ABOUT 20 DEGS RIGHT OF COURSE FOR A FEW MINS, THEN TURNED AND PARALLELED THE COURSE. AS I THOUGHT WE WERE GETTING CLOSER TO RESTR AREA, I TOLD CAPT I THOUGHT IT WAS LESS THAN 5 MI OFF THE ARWY. HE SAID THAT THERE WAS NO WAY TO KNOW IF WE WERE IN RESTR AREA OR NOT. I CONSIDERED ADVISING CENTER OF THE SITUATION, BUT FREQ WAS EXTREMELY CONGESTED. THEN CTLR RESPONDED BY SAYING TO TURN TO LEFT HDG 180 DEGS, VECTOR OUT OF RESTR AREA. CAPT THEN TURNED ACFT AS INSTRUCTED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.