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Flight crew ATC review reveals little of potential problem existing between approach controller and flight crew regarding the pilot request denied on amended clearance.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 191727 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199110 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : wri |
| State Reference | NJ |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 4000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : wri |
| Operator | general aviation : corporate |
| Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : instrument |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 1850 flight time type : 90 |
| ASRS Report | 191727 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 90 flight time total : 5300 flight time type : 900 |
| ASRS Report | 191731 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
In an IFR flight from hul to blm we encountered a situation with a controller. We were cleared manta V276 robbinsville. We requested direct allaire at 3000 ft so we could take a visual approach. The controller cleared us to 3000 ft but said couldn't give direct because of an aircraft on an approach to allaire. We stated that altitude wouldn't interfere with the aircraft's approach or missed approach and once we had field in sight we would cancel IFR. The controller then said it was kennedy's airspace and they could not authorize that. We requested them to check with kennedy. They did and said kennedy didn't approve. We continued as filed and asked for a phone number to supervisor. He said that we were interfering with the controllers workload by arguing and confusing the controller. At the time we only heard one other aircraft on the frequency. If requesting a clearance and then clarifying it with the controller creates a problem something is wrong. A controller should not get flustered when questioned and if overloaded should know how to handle the situation. If not they need more training. Supplemental information from acn 191731. Next time we get a semi-weak controller we will need to be more understanding. I don't know what else to do.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC ATC REVIEW REVEALS LITTLE OF POTENTIAL PROBLEM EXISTING BTWN APCH CTLR AND FLC REGARDING THE PLT REQUEST DENIED ON AMENDED CLRNC.
Narrative: IN AN IFR FLT FROM HUL TO BLM WE ENCOUNTERED A SITUATION WITH A CTLR. WE WERE CLRED MANTA V276 ROBBINSVILLE. WE REQUESTED DIRECT ALLAIRE AT 3000 FT SO WE COULD TAKE A VISUAL APCH. THE CTLR CLRED US TO 3000 FT BUT SAID COULDN'T GIVE DIRECT BECAUSE OF AN ACFT ON AN APCH TO ALLAIRE. WE STATED THAT ALT WOULDN'T INTERFERE WITH THE ACFT'S APCH OR MISSED APCH AND ONCE WE HAD FIELD IN SIGHT WE WOULD CANCEL IFR. THE CTLR THEN SAID IT WAS KENNEDY'S AIRSPACE AND THEY COULD NOT AUTHORIZE THAT. WE REQUESTED THEM TO CHK WITH KENNEDY. THEY DID AND SAID KENNEDY DIDN'T APPROVE. WE CONTINUED AS FILED AND ASKED FOR A PHONE NUMBER TO SUPVR. HE SAID THAT WE WERE INTERFERING WITH THE CTLRS WORKLOAD BY ARGUING AND CONFUSING THE CTLR. AT THE TIME WE ONLY HEARD ONE OTHER ACFT ON THE FREQ. IF REQUESTING A CLRNC AND THEN CLARIFYING IT WITH THE CTLR CREATES A PROBLEM SOMETHING IS WRONG. A CTLR SHOULD NOT GET FLUSTERED WHEN QUESTIONED AND IF OVERLOADED SHOULD KNOW HOW TO HANDLE THE SITUATION. IF NOT THEY NEED MORE TRAINING. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 191731. NEXT TIME WE GET A SEMI-WEAK CTLR WE WILL NEED TO BE MORE UNDERSTANDING. I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.