37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 194316 |
Time | |
Date | 199111 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : srp airport : phx |
State Reference | AZ |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 9000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : phx |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
Flight Phase | cruise other cruise other descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 300 flight time total : 2700 flight time type : 300 |
ASRS Report | 194316 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 6000 flight time type : 1100 |
ASRS Report | 193729 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation non adherence other other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : insufficient time |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 3000 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
I was acting as first officer and was the PF. The aircraft was 20 NM southeast of srp VORTAC on the 147 degree radial, on the to tec 6 arrival. We were given a clearance to 'turn left at tukee heading 260 degrees.' immediately after that additional clearance was given 'descend and maintain 7000 ft.' the captain read back '260 degree after tukee and we are descending to 7000 ft.' after crossing tukee and flying heading 260 degree we saw 2 jet aircraft, one at 11 O'clock the other at 10 O'clock. Both appeared less than 5 mi laterally and at or passing through our altitude. The captain and I noted the early descent to 7000 ft when it was first given and knew an error had been made when we saw the first 2 aircraft. As they passed from right to left another aircraft became visible at 2 O'clock also sbound. This, the conflicting aircraft, an medium large transport, passed our 12 O'clock position at our altitude less than 1/2 mi from us. As the aircraft passed from right to left the approach controller asked our altitude. The captain answered '7000 ft as assigned.' the aircraft passed off our left front and no further conflict occurred. The captain called RAPCON by landline, after landing and was told an investigation was being conducted. I believe the situation came about, because the controller descended our aircraft into departure traffic. However, I also believe that we could have questioned the controller more about the 7000 ft clearance when it was initially issued. Had we been IMC we would not have realized that we were in a conflict situation, because we were on an arrival frequency and the conflicting traffic was on a departure frequency. No evasive action was required, because we saw the aircraft before it became a conflict. Supplemental information from acn 193729. We were given a clearance to turn to a 260 degree heading at tukee intersection (8 mi DME) and descend to and maintain 7000 ft. I read back that we would head 260 degree at tukee and were descending to 7000 ft. Reaching tukee level at 7000 ft we were given traffic, an large transport at 11 O'clock which we had in sight at about our altitude. Heading 260 degree from tukee we received another traffic call an medium large transport at 1 O'clock and also had that traffic in sight. It seems we were given a premature descent on the arrival, because the conflict traffic was climbing to 8000 ft. Or maybe we misinterpreted the clearance and should have maintained 9000 ft until the turn at tukee, which may still have put us in a conflicting situation. I have had other situations like this with phoenix controllers. They will issue turns at intxns and dscnts at the same time which is confusing as to when you should start the descent.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: POTENTIAL CONFLICT BTWN ARR AND DEP TFC ON ARR PROC STAR AND DEP PROC SID WHILE UNDER RADAR MONITORING AND VECTORING.
Narrative: I WAS ACTING AS FO AND WAS THE PF. THE ACFT WAS 20 NM SE OF SRP VORTAC ON THE 147 DEG RADIAL, ON THE TO TEC 6 ARR. WE WERE GIVEN A CLRNC TO 'TURN L AT TUKEE HDG 260 DEGS.' IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT ADDITIONAL CLRNC WAS GIVEN 'DSND AND MAINTAIN 7000 FT.' THE CAPT READ BACK '260 DEG AFTER TUKEE AND WE ARE DSNDING TO 7000 FT.' AFTER XING TUKEE AND FLYING HDG 260 DEG WE SAW 2 JET ACFT, ONE AT 11 O'CLOCK THE OTHER AT 10 O'CLOCK. BOTH APPEARED LESS THAN 5 MI LATERALLY AND AT OR PASSING THROUGH OUR ALT. THE CAPT AND I NOTED THE EARLY DSCNT TO 7000 FT WHEN IT WAS FIRST GIVEN AND KNEW AN ERROR HAD BEEN MADE WHEN WE SAW THE FIRST 2 ACFT. AS THEY PASSED FROM R TO L ANOTHER ACFT BECAME VISIBLE AT 2 O'CLOCK ALSO SBOUND. THIS, THE CONFLICTING ACFT, AN MLG, PASSED OUR 12 O'CLOCK POS AT OUR ALT LESS THAN 1/2 MI FROM US. AS THE ACFT PASSED FROM R TO L THE APCH CTLR ASKED OUR ALT. THE CAPT ANSWERED '7000 FT AS ASSIGNED.' THE ACFT PASSED OFF OUR L FRONT AND NO FURTHER CONFLICT OCCURRED. THE CAPT CALLED RAPCON BY LANDLINE, AFTER LNDG AND WAS TOLD AN INVESTIGATION WAS BEING CONDUCTED. I BELIEVE THE SITUATION CAME ABOUT, BECAUSE THE CTLR DSNDED OUR ACFT INTO DEP TFC. HOWEVER, I ALSO BELIEVE THAT WE COULD HAVE QUESTIONED THE CTLR MORE ABOUT THE 7000 FT CLRNC WHEN IT WAS INITIALLY ISSUED. HAD WE BEEN IMC WE WOULD NOT HAVE REALIZED THAT WE WERE IN A CONFLICT SITUATION, BECAUSE WE WERE ON AN ARR FREQ AND THE CONFLICTING TFC WAS ON A DEP FREQ. NO EVASIVE ACTION WAS REQUIRED, BECAUSE WE SAW THE ACFT BEFORE IT BECAME A CONFLICT. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 193729. WE WERE GIVEN A CLRNC TO TURN TO A 260 DEG HDG AT TUKEE INTXN (8 MI DME) AND DSND TO AND MAINTAIN 7000 FT. I READ BACK THAT WE WOULD HEAD 260 DEG AT TUKEE AND WERE DSNDING TO 7000 FT. REACHING TUKEE LEVEL AT 7000 FT WE WERE GIVEN TFC, AN LGT AT 11 O'CLOCK WHICH WE HAD IN SIGHT AT ABOUT OUR ALT. HDG 260 DEG FROM TUKEE WE RECEIVED ANOTHER TFC CALL AN MLG AT 1 O'CLOCK AND ALSO HAD THAT TFC IN SIGHT. IT SEEMS WE WERE GIVEN A PREMATURE DSCNT ON THE ARR, BECAUSE THE CONFLICT TFC WAS CLBING TO 8000 FT. OR MAYBE WE MISINTERPRETED THE CLRNC AND SHOULD HAVE MAINTAINED 9000 FT UNTIL THE TURN AT TUKEE, WHICH MAY STILL HAVE PUT US IN A CONFLICTING SITUATION. I HAVE HAD OTHER SITUATIONS LIKE THIS WITH PHOENIX CTLRS. THEY WILL ISSUE TURNS AT INTXNS AND DSCNTS AT THE SAME TIME WHICH IS CONFUSING AS TO WHEN YOU SHOULD START THE DSCNT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.