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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 200825 |
Time | |
Date | 199202 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : bzn |
State Reference | MT |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zlc tower : crg |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff climbout : initial |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 164 flight time total : 10966 flight time type : 2345 |
ASRS Report | 200825 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We taxied out for takeoff at bzn airport. Bzn is an uncontrolled airport with an airport advisory service providing local traffic information. We called ZLC for our clearance and were told to expect a delay due to an inbound aircraft. The first officer talked to the inbound aircraft on aas frequency to find his location. We then saw the aircraft visually who was about to enter downwind. The first officer called center and asked if we could depart VFR and pick up our clearance once airborne. ZLC said that would be ok. It is very common to be given a VFR climb as part of the IFR clearance so we both thought that was about what we were doing anyway. We made a VFR departure with the incoming aircraft in sight. We picked up our IFR clearance airborne and proceeded to our destination without incident. After the flight, I was not sure if our VFR departure was authorized in our operations manual. In the manual's operations specifications, it states that at airports without operating ATC facilities (as was the case at bzn), the flight may depart VFR if it is not otherwise possible to obtain an IFR clearance. The IFR clearance must be picked up within 50 mi. This probably was not the case here, as we had a means to receive the clearance, but were just experiencing a delay in receiving it. I am not quite sure how the FAA would interpret this. I think in the future I will not take a chance and simply wait until I have the clearance, and make the climb 'in VFR conditions.' at any rate, there was no conflict with another aircraft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR DEPARTS VFR INSTEAD OF ACCEPTING DELAY DUE TO INBOUND TFC.
Narrative: WE TAXIED OUT FOR TKOF AT BZN ARPT. BZN IS AN UNCTLED ARPT WITH AN ARPT ADVISORY SVC PROVIDING LCL TFC INFO. WE CALLED ZLC FOR OUR CLRNC AND WERE TOLD TO EXPECT A DELAY DUE TO AN INBOUND ACFT. THE FO TALKED TO THE INBOUND ACFT ON AAS FREQ TO FIND HIS LOCATION. WE THEN SAW THE ACFT VISUALLY WHO WAS ABOUT TO ENTER DOWNWIND. THE FO CALLED CTR AND ASKED IF WE COULD DEPART VFR AND PICK UP OUR CLRNC ONCE AIRBORNE. ZLC SAID THAT WOULD BE OK. IT IS VERY COMMON TO BE GIVEN A VFR CLB AS PART OF THE IFR CLRNC SO WE BOTH THOUGHT THAT WAS ABOUT WHAT WE WERE DOING ANYWAY. WE MADE A VFR DEP WITH THE INCOMING ACFT IN SIGHT. WE PICKED UP OUR IFR CLRNC AIRBORNE AND PROCEEDED TO OUR DEST WITHOUT INCIDENT. AFTER THE FLT, I WAS NOT SURE IF OUR VFR DEP WAS AUTHORIZED IN OUR OPS MANUAL. IN THE MANUAL'S OPS SPECIFICATIONS, IT STATES THAT AT ARPTS WITHOUT OPERATING ATC FACILITIES (AS WAS THE CASE AT BZN), THE FLT MAY DEPART VFR IF IT IS NOT OTHERWISE POSSIBLE TO OBTAIN AN IFR CLRNC. THE IFR CLRNC MUST BE PICKED UP WITHIN 50 MI. THIS PROBABLY WAS NOT THE CASE HERE, AS WE HAD A MEANS TO RECEIVE THE CLRNC, BUT WERE JUST EXPERIENCING A DELAY IN RECEIVING IT. I AM NOT QUITE SURE HOW THE FAA WOULD INTERPRET THIS. I THINK IN THE FUTURE I WILL NOT TAKE A CHANCE AND SIMPLY WAIT UNTIL I HAVE THE CLRNC, AND MAKE THE CLB 'IN VFR CONDITIONS.' AT ANY RATE, THERE WAS NO CONFLICT WITH ANOTHER ACFT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.