37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 205121 |
Time | |
Date | 199203 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : oak airport : sjc |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 12000 msl bound upper : 12000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : oak |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure other departure sid : sid enroute airway : oak |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 205121 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
On the loupe 8 SID, I initiated a turn to the VOR too soon to comply with the 'at 12000' restriction over the VOR. While leveling at the mandatory 5000 ft altitude restriction, cleaning up the aircraft during acceleration from a maximum-performance turnout and looking for the VFR aircraft the TCASII had been calling out, bay departure began issuing a long complex clearance that, besides including several altitudes with restrictions and action beyond the VOR, included a 'turn to the VOR.' in the turn we pointed out to bay departure that we would be unable to comply with the 12000 ft restriction. Bay acknowledged and no conflict was noted. Despite the fact that I don't like the sjc departures because they demand a 'heads down' in a heavy VFR traffic environment, bay departure is issuing too many redundant clrncs from the SID and is overloading us regard understanding and readback. My particular clrncs may have included a 'turn...to cross at' element, I don't know. I only reacted to the 'turn to the VOR' element. I suggest bay departure avoid the long redundant clrncs and relate only to the SID which we have studied and are prepared to fly. 'Turn at pilot's discretion to the VOR, cleared to FL230, comply with the SID' is short, concise and relates to the SID.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CAPT OF ACR LGT ACFT DEVIATED FROM A SID CLRNC BY NOT ALLOWING SUFFICIENT DISTANCE TO ARRIVE AT ONE OF THE XING RESTRICTION ALTS.
Narrative: ON THE LOUPE 8 SID, I INITIATED A TURN TO THE VOR TOO SOON TO COMPLY WITH THE 'AT 12000' RESTRICTION OVER THE VOR. WHILE LEVELING AT THE MANDATORY 5000 FT ALT RESTRICTION, CLEANING UP THE ACFT DURING ACCELERATION FROM A MAX-PERFORMANCE TURNOUT AND LOOKING FOR THE VFR ACFT THE TCASII HAD BEEN CALLING OUT, BAY DEP BEGAN ISSUING A LONG COMPLEX CLRNC THAT, BESIDES INCLUDING SEVERAL ALTS WITH RESTRICTIONS AND ACTION BEYOND THE VOR, INCLUDED A 'TURN TO THE VOR.' IN THE TURN WE POINTED OUT TO BAY DEP THAT WE WOULD BE UNABLE TO COMPLY WITH THE 12000 FT RESTRICTION. BAY ACKNOWLEDGED AND NO CONFLICT WAS NOTED. DESPITE THE FACT THAT I DON'T LIKE THE SJC DEPS BECAUSE THEY DEMAND A 'HEADS DOWN' IN A HVY VFR TFC ENVIRONMENT, BAY DEP IS ISSUING TOO MANY REDUNDANT CLRNCS FROM THE SID AND IS OVERLOADING US REGARD UNDERSTANDING AND READBACK. MY PARTICULAR CLRNCS MAY HAVE INCLUDED A 'TURN...TO CROSS AT' ELEMENT, I DON'T KNOW. I ONLY REACTED TO THE 'TURN TO THE VOR' ELEMENT. I SUGGEST BAY DEP AVOID THE LONG REDUNDANT CLRNCS AND RELATE ONLY TO THE SID WHICH WE HAVE STUDIED AND ARE PREPARED TO FLY. 'TURN AT PLT'S DISCRETION TO THE VOR, CLRED TO FL230, COMPLY WITH THE SID' IS SHORT, CONCISE AND RELATES TO THE SID.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.