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An air carrier medium large transport and an small transport had less than standard separation in the WX. TCASII and TRACON were giving both complementary and conflicting instructions beyond the capabilities of the air carrier aircraft.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 227391 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199211 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : vps |
| State Reference | FL |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 4500 msl bound upper : 4800 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : vps tower : lga |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Make Model Name | Small Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 175 flight time total : 17300 flight time type : 6000 |
| ASRS Report | 227391 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took evasive action |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 800 vertical : 500 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation Operational Error |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Flight departed vps runway 12. At 2000 ft cleared to 10000 ft, left turn to 090 degrees. In the turn, further clearance to 030 degrees. At about 4000 ft in the turn, traffic appeared at 10 O'clock on TCASII. Still in the turn, further clearance to 360 degrees. (Flight now in IMC, intermittent visibility up to no more than 1/4 between buildups.) before rolling out on 360 degrees, advised of traffic 'eastbound small transport, 10 O'clock, 5000 ft.' TCASII went into RA mode 'descend, descend' then ATC assigned 330 degrees, followed by a request to tighten the turn (exact wording not recalled), further left to 290 degrees. By this time, I had reversed my climb at about 4800 ft. TCASII now getting excited, 'increase rate of descent.' traffic symbol on TCASII passed off our right side (about 2 symbol widths on the TCASII) as we went through 4500 ft. TCASII 'clear of conflict.' continued turn to 290 degrees, reversed dive, continued climb to assigned altitude. Rest of flight uneventful. No comment from ATC. I also believe the small transport was not aware of our presence. No visual contact ever made. I felt at the time that departure control was trying to turn me inside the traffic. At 220 KIAS and 30 degrees bank a heavy medium large transport is ponderous at best, cannot climb quickly nor is it changing heading very quickly.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR MLG AND AN SMT HAD LTSS IN THE WX. TCASII AND TRACON WERE GIVING BOTH COMPLEMENTARY AND CONFLICTING INSTRUCTIONS BEYOND THE CAPABILITIES OF THE ACR ACFT.
Narrative: FLT DEPARTED VPS RWY 12. AT 2000 FT CLRED TO 10000 FT, L TURN TO 090 DEGS. IN THE TURN, FURTHER CLRNC TO 030 DEGS. AT ABOUT 4000 FT IN THE TURN, TFC APPEARED AT 10 O'CLOCK ON TCASII. STILL IN THE TURN, FURTHER CLRNC TO 360 DEGS. (FLT NOW IN IMC, INTERMITTENT VISIBILITY UP TO NO MORE THAN 1/4 BTWN BUILDUPS.) BEFORE ROLLING OUT ON 360 DEGS, ADVISED OF TFC 'EBOUND SMT, 10 O'CLOCK, 5000 FT.' TCASII WENT INTO RA MODE 'DSND, DSND' THEN ATC ASSIGNED 330 DEGS, FOLLOWED BY A REQUEST TO TIGHTEN THE TURN (EXACT WORDING NOT RECALLED), FURTHER L TO 290 DEGS. BY THIS TIME, I HAD REVERSED MY CLB AT ABOUT 4800 FT. TCASII NOW GETTING EXCITED, 'INCREASE RATE OF DSCNT.' TFC SYMBOL ON TCASII PASSED OFF OUR R SIDE (ABOUT 2 SYMBOL WIDTHS ON THE TCASII) AS WE WENT THROUGH 4500 FT. TCASII 'CLR OF CONFLICT.' CONTINUED TURN TO 290 DEGS, REVERSED DIVE, CONTINUED CLB TO ASSIGNED ALT. REST OF FLT UNEVENTFUL. NO COMMENT FROM ATC. I ALSO BELIEVE THE SMT WAS NOT AWARE OF OUR PRESENCE. NO VISUAL CONTACT EVER MADE. I FELT AT THE TIME THAT DEP CTL WAS TRYING TO TURN ME INSIDE THE TFC. AT 220 KIAS AND 30 DEGS BANK A HVY MLG IS PONDEROUS AT BEST, CANNOT CLB QUICKLY NOR IS IT CHANGING HDG VERY QUICKLY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.