37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 233582 |
Time | |
Date | 199301 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dus |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 5000 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : dus |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 17500 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 233582 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Publication | Unspecified |
Narrative:
We were cleared for an arkon zx arrival at dusseldorf. The arrival plate depicts the route to fly which consists of 2 legs (segments) after arrival over arkon intersection. We followed the arrival route as depicted, i.e., 115 degrees for 4 mi then turn south, 180 degrees to the next intersection awaiting vectors for final approach to runway 23. After we rolled out on the 180 degree heading approach asked us our heading. We told him 180 degrees. He said 'turn left to 140 degrees, you're supposed to go to 'bottrop.' bottrop is a separate fix on the arrival chart, but was not on the depicted arrival route. I think the europeans, especially the germans, need to get with us people and come to a little better standardization on what they expect pilots to do with the various clearance they receive. There was apparently no conflict in this incident but if it were an airport like O'hare there could have been a problem. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: when the controller asked their heading, he said he expected them to fly from arkon intersection direct to bottrop. The reporter said he had no idea about that and was just flying the STAR as published. To that, the controller replied that they were landing runway 23, as if everyone knew that the route was direct bottrop when landing 23. Now that he knows that, the reporter has no trouble because, whenever he is cleared via the arkon 1 xray STAR, he asks if they want him to go direct bottrop. Tough on the newcomer, but no problem for the pilot who has flown into dusseldorf a few times.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LGT WAS EXPECTED TO FLY FROM ARKON INTXN DIRECT TO BOTTROP EVEN THOUGH NEITHER CLRNC NOR STAR SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THAT RTING.
Narrative: WE WERE CLRED FOR AN ARKON ZX ARR AT DUSSELDORF. THE ARR PLATE DEPICTS THE RTE TO FLY WHICH CONSISTS OF 2 LEGS (SEGMENTS) AFTER ARR OVER ARKON INTXN. WE FOLLOWED THE ARR RTE AS DEPICTED, I.E., 115 DEGS FOR 4 MI THEN TURN S, 180 DEGS TO THE NEXT INTXN AWAITING VECTORS FOR FINAL APCH TO RWY 23. AFTER WE ROLLED OUT ON THE 180 DEG HDG APCH ASKED US OUR HDG. WE TOLD HIM 180 DEGS. HE SAID 'TURN L TO 140 DEGS, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GO TO 'BOTTROP.' BOTTROP IS A SEPARATE FIX ON THE ARR CHART, BUT WAS NOT ON THE DEPICTED ARR RTE. I THINK THE EUROPEANS, ESPECIALLY THE GERMANS, NEED TO GET WITH U.S. PEOPLE AND COME TO A LITTLE BETTER STANDARDIZATION ON WHAT THEY EXPECT PLTS TO DO WITH THE VARIOUS CLRNC THEY RECEIVE. THERE WAS APPARENTLY NO CONFLICT IN THIS INCIDENT BUT IF IT WERE AN ARPT LIKE O'HARE THERE COULD HAVE BEEN A PROB. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: WHEN THE CTLR ASKED THEIR HDG, HE SAID HE EXPECTED THEM TO FLY FROM ARKON INTXN DIRECT TO BOTTROP. THE RPTR SAID HE HAD NO IDEA ABOUT THAT AND WAS JUST FLYING THE STAR AS PUBLISHED. TO THAT, THE CTLR REPLIED THAT THEY WERE LNDG RWY 23, AS IF EVERYONE KNEW THAT THE RTE WAS DIRECT BOTTROP WHEN LNDG 23. NOW THAT HE KNOWS THAT, THE RPTR HAS NO TROUBLE BECAUSE, WHENEVER HE IS CLRED VIA THE ARKON 1 XRAY STAR, HE ASKS IF THEY WANT HIM TO GO DIRECT BOTTROP. TOUGH ON THE NEWCOMER, BUT NO PROB FOR THE PLT WHO HAS FLOWN INTO DUSSELDORF A FEW TIMES.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.