Narrative:

Airport management in agreement with airline mgrs at roc operate a 'snow desk' to coordinate snow removal activities and decide on runway/taxiway closures. The safety of flight is being compromised by the airline mgrs placing their emphasis on meeting schedules, regardless of the runway conditions. In some cases, pilots also place the same emphasis. This is my scenario as it happened to air carrier X, an large transport in dec/92 and to air carrier Y on mar/xx/93. After much haggling, coordination, changing of decisions and plans, runway 4/22 will close at a predetermined time due to deteriorating runway conditions. The airport manager told me on the phone, 'my crews are anxious to get on the runway as conditions are getting bad.' the runway was to close in 10 mins for a 15 min time period for brooming. A call came from the snow desk being operated by the air carrier Y company manager, mr. Y. Keep the runway open till after air carrier Y gets airborne to rdu. The runway was left open till air carrier Y departed. The airport manager is saying how bad conditions are, but air carrier Y wants to get their flight out before the closure of the runway. I'm not at all sure that flight safety was paramount in the decision. Beat the closure was paramount. The pilot of air carrier Y was waiting for about 15 mins for the county to sand the runway or broom it. When it was about to close, beat the closure and get out in a hurry was the order of the moment. In dec/92, the same thing happened with near disastrous results. The snow desk decides to close runway 4. The air carrier X company manager, mr. X, calls me. Can we keep runway 4 open till my flight gets in. I said if snow desk says it's open, we'll run him. 2 mins later the runway is open. Air carrier X lands, can't taxi off as his nose gear is 8 inches from the end of the runway. A tug is needed. The tug gets stuck. The airplane is on the runway for almost an hour. I called the snow desk and said 'so much for letting air carrier X land.' mr. Y said, 'you win a few and lose a few.' nice safety minded attitude from an airline station manager. The airlines should not be in position of exerting any influence such as a 'snow desk' operation where decisions are being made on shutting down a runway/txwys for poor conditions. The airlines exerted the pressure to get in on the decision making process as they thought the county wasn't making adequate decisions on closures to suit them. The county basically said ok, you can do it better, show us. The county field supervisors have told me how much they like it and also how much they dislike it. The airlines relieve the county from the hard decisions (they like it). The airlines are making bad decisions and the county supervisors privately, readily admit it. The bad decisions are always made after great vacillation because each airline doesn't want their airline affected. We (ATC) are left in the middle of the vacillation/bad decisions and the pilots for the most part wanting to land in the best conditions possible. Only if the air carrier X had gone off the runway in dec/92 would things have changed. Until something bad happens, nothing will change. I've tried to change it through talk to no avail. A controller is at this time filing a ucr on this subject.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: CTLR CLAIMS THAT AIRLINE PERSONNEL MONITORING THE SNOW DESK KEEP RWYS OPEN IN ORDER TO GET THEIR ARRS AND DEPS OFF WHEN THE RWY SHOULD BE CLOSED.

Narrative: ARPT MGMNT IN AGREEMENT WITH AIRLINE MGRS AT ROC OPERATE A 'SNOW DESK' TO COORDINATE SNOW REMOVAL ACTIVITIES AND DECIDE ON RWY/TXWY CLOSURES. THE SAFETY OF FLT IS BEING COMPROMISED BY THE AIRLINE MGRS PLACING THEIR EMPHASIS ON MEETING SCHEDULES, REGARDLESS OF THE RWY CONDITIONS. IN SOME CASES, PLTS ALSO PLACE THE SAME EMPHASIS. THIS IS MY SCENARIO AS IT HAPPENED TO ACR X, AN LGT IN DEC/92 AND TO ACR Y ON MAR/XX/93. AFTER MUCH HAGGLING, COORD, CHANGING OF DECISIONS AND PLANS, RWY 4/22 WILL CLOSE AT A PREDETERMINED TIME DUE TO DETERIORATING RWY CONDITIONS. THE ARPT MGR TOLD ME ON THE PHONE, 'MY CREWS ARE ANXIOUS TO GET ON THE RWY AS CONDITIONS ARE GETTING BAD.' THE RWY WAS TO CLOSE IN 10 MINS FOR A 15 MIN TIME PERIOD FOR BROOMING. A CALL CAME FROM THE SNOW DESK BEING OPERATED BY THE ACR Y COMPANY MGR, MR. Y. KEEP THE RWY OPEN TILL AFTER ACR Y GETS AIRBORNE TO RDU. THE RWY WAS LEFT OPEN TILL ACR Y DEPARTED. THE ARPT MGR IS SAYING HOW BAD CONDITIONS ARE, BUT ACR Y WANTS TO GET THEIR FLT OUT BEFORE THE CLOSURE OF THE RWY. I'M NOT AT ALL SURE THAT FLT SAFETY WAS PARAMOUNT IN THE DECISION. BEAT THE CLOSURE WAS PARAMOUNT. THE PLT OF ACR Y WAS WAITING FOR ABOUT 15 MINS FOR THE COUNTY TO SAND THE RWY OR BROOM IT. WHEN IT WAS ABOUT TO CLOSE, BEAT THE CLOSURE AND GET OUT IN A HURRY WAS THE ORDER OF THE MOMENT. IN DEC/92, THE SAME THING HAPPENED WITH NEAR DISASTROUS RESULTS. THE SNOW DESK DECIDES TO CLOSE RWY 4. THE ACR X COMPANY MGR, MR. X, CALLS ME. CAN WE KEEP RWY 4 OPEN TILL MY FLT GETS IN. I SAID IF SNOW DESK SAYS IT'S OPEN, WE'LL RUN HIM. 2 MINS LATER THE RWY IS OPEN. ACR X LANDS, CAN'T TAXI OFF AS HIS NOSE GEAR IS 8 INCHES FROM THE END OF THE RWY. A TUG IS NEEDED. THE TUG GETS STUCK. THE AIRPLANE IS ON THE RWY FOR ALMOST AN HR. I CALLED THE SNOW DESK AND SAID 'SO MUCH FOR LETTING ACR X LAND.' MR. Y SAID, 'YOU WIN A FEW AND LOSE A FEW.' NICE SAFETY MINDED ATTITUDE FROM AN AIRLINE STATION MGR. THE AIRLINES SHOULD NOT BE IN POS OF EXERTING ANY INFLUENCE SUCH AS A 'SNOW DESK' OP WHERE DECISIONS ARE BEING MADE ON SHUTTING DOWN A RWY/TXWYS FOR POOR CONDITIONS. THE AIRLINES EXERTED THE PRESSURE TO GET IN ON THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS AS THEY THOUGHT THE COUNTY WASN'T MAKING ADEQUATE DECISIONS ON CLOSURES TO SUIT THEM. THE COUNTY BASICALLY SAID OK, YOU CAN DO IT BETTER, SHOW US. THE COUNTY FIELD SUPVRS HAVE TOLD ME HOW MUCH THEY LIKE IT AND ALSO HOW MUCH THEY DISLIKE IT. THE AIRLINES RELIEVE THE COUNTY FROM THE HARD DECISIONS (THEY LIKE IT). THE AIRLINES ARE MAKING BAD DECISIONS AND THE COUNTY SUPVRS PRIVATELY, READILY ADMIT IT. THE BAD DECISIONS ARE ALWAYS MADE AFTER GREAT VACILLATION BECAUSE EACH AIRLINE DOESN'T WANT THEIR AIRLINE AFFECTED. WE (ATC) ARE LEFT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE VACILLATION/BAD DECISIONS AND THE PLTS FOR THE MOST PART WANTING TO LAND IN THE BEST CONDITIONS POSSIBLE. ONLY IF THE ACR X HAD GONE OFF THE RWY IN DEC/92 WOULD THINGS HAVE CHANGED. UNTIL SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS, NOTHING WILL CHANGE. I'VE TRIED TO CHANGE IT THROUGH TALK TO NO AVAIL. A CTLR IS AT THIS TIME FILING A UCR ON THIS SUBJECT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.