37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 235817 |
Time | |
Date | 199303 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : hnl |
State Reference | HI |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3800 msl bound upper : 5400 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Marginal |
Light | Dawn |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : hnl tower : lbb |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | other |
Make Model Name | Fighter |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 110 flight time total : 8400 flight time type : 420 |
ASRS Report | 235817 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 4000 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Approaching booke intersection, ZHN cleared us to turn and intercept the hnl 08L localizer and maintain 8000 ft. Listening, I had also heard them working some hawaii air national guard fgt's. I also noted that there was a fairly large amount of other traffic in the area. We were turned over to approach control a little bit late, and we were on the localizer at 8000 ft, about 28 mi out. Approach control cleared us to descend to 3000 ft, and we descended slightly faster than normal, since we were above the GS. Initially, we were asked to maintain 250 KIAS to 10 mi, but I refused that clearance for safety reasons, and we were subsequently told to maintain 170 KIAS. When we reached the GS at about 4400 ft, we decided to descend on the GS to 3000 ft in anticipation of a forthcoming approach clearance. Just after passing the shoreline, our TCASII announced 'traffic.' checking, I noted an amber DOT at our 7 O'clock position, just inside the 2 mi circle. As I looked, considering the speed, I thought it might be an fgt entering the pattern for a 360 degree overhead at hnl at around 2000 ft. Before I had time to confirm this, the RA sounded, instructing, 'climb' and asking for a 1500-2000 FPM rate of climb. I instructed the copilot, who was flying the aircraft, to follow the RA, and he added power and smoothly transitioned from the descent to a climb. We continued the climb to about 5400 ft, when the TCASII announced, 'clear of conflict.' as we transitioned to the climb, I spotted an fgt at our 9:30 position, slightly (400 ft?) above us and about 3000-4000 ft away. As we climbed, it was passing us on the left, and it was also climbing, staying at or above our altitude. It was in a turn, and, although I suspected that it was a left turn, I could not be sure. The visibility at altitude was poor in haze, and all I could make out was a silhouette. Since it did not seem to be turning away as fast as I thought it might, and since its being in a right turn would put us in a dangerous conflict, I instructed the copilot to continue the climb at the best rate. I lost sight of the fgt at about our 11 O'clock position. At the time, the flight attendants were in the aisles, and checking the passenger for landing. I later received a number of comments about the maneuver and how difficult it was for them to hang on. Fortunately, the transition to the climb was sufficiently smooth and the flight attendant's reactions were good enough that no one was injured. I feel that we were quite lucky in this regard. We started the maneuver at about 3800 ft. At the time, I reported to approach control that we were climbing in response to a TCASII RA. At about 5400 ft, when the TCASII said 'clear...,' I reported this to approach control. They then cleared us for an approach. However, I felt that we were too high and too close in to safely execute an approach. After I reported this to approach control, they gave us a vector to 170 degrees for a moment, then a turn back to 030 degrees to intercept the localizer. To assist us, we dropped the gear at about 5500 ft and, clearing the clouds and intercepting the localizer at around 3000 ft, I reported the field and accepted a visual approach. Unfortunately, as we entered bright sunlight again, the copilot lost sight of the runway. It was difficult, but, due to my greater familiarity with the field, I could make out the landing area. I instructed the copilot to fly the ILS until I had a better view of the runway. At about 1000 ft we were fairly well established on localizer and GS, and the rest of the landing was uneventful.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: WDB ACFT HAS TCASII RA ON ILS APCH WITH MIL ACFT WHICH PROBABLY DID NOT HAVE TCASII.
Narrative: APCHING BOOKE INTXN, ZHN CLRED US TO TURN AND INTERCEPT THE HNL 08L LOC AND MAINTAIN 8000 FT. LISTENING, I HAD ALSO HEARD THEM WORKING SOME HAWAII AIR NATIONAL GUARD FGT'S. I ALSO NOTED THAT THERE WAS A FAIRLY LARGE AMOUNT OF OTHER TFC IN THE AREA. WE WERE TURNED OVER TO APCH CTL A LITTLE BIT LATE, AND WE WERE ON THE LOC AT 8000 FT, ABOUT 28 MI OUT. APCH CTL CLRED US TO DSND TO 3000 FT, AND WE DSNDED SLIGHTLY FASTER THAN NORMAL, SINCE WE WERE ABOVE THE GS. INITIALLY, WE WERE ASKED TO MAINTAIN 250 KIAS TO 10 MI, BUT I REFUSED THAT CLRNC FOR SAFETY REASONS, AND WE WERE SUBSEQUENTLY TOLD TO MAINTAIN 170 KIAS. WHEN WE REACHED THE GS AT ABOUT 4400 FT, WE DECIDED TO DSND ON THE GS TO 3000 FT IN ANTICIPATION OF A FORTHCOMING APCH CLRNC. JUST AFTER PASSING THE SHORELINE, OUR TCASII ANNOUNCED 'TFC.' CHKING, I NOTED AN AMBER DOT AT OUR 7 O'CLOCK POS, JUST INSIDE THE 2 MI CIRCLE. AS I LOOKED, CONSIDERING THE SPD, I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE AN FGT ENTERING THE PATTERN FOR A 360 DEG OVERHEAD AT HNL AT AROUND 2000 FT. BEFORE I HAD TIME TO CONFIRM THIS, THE RA SOUNDED, INSTRUCTING, 'CLB' AND ASKING FOR A 1500-2000 FPM RATE OF CLB. I INSTRUCTED THE COPLT, WHO WAS FLYING THE ACFT, TO FOLLOW THE RA, AND HE ADDED PWR AND SMOOTHLY TRANSITIONED FROM THE DSCNT TO A CLB. WE CONTINUED THE CLB TO ABOUT 5400 FT, WHEN THE TCASII ANNOUNCED, 'CLR OF CONFLICT.' AS WE TRANSITIONED TO THE CLB, I SPOTTED AN FGT AT OUR 9:30 POS, SLIGHTLY (400 FT?) ABOVE US AND ABOUT 3000-4000 FT AWAY. AS WE CLBED, IT WAS PASSING US ON THE L, AND IT WAS ALSO CLBING, STAYING AT OR ABOVE OUR ALT. IT WAS IN A TURN, AND, ALTHOUGH I SUSPECTED THAT IT WAS A L TURN, I COULD NOT BE SURE. THE VISIBILITY AT ALT WAS POOR IN HAZE, AND ALL I COULD MAKE OUT WAS A SILHOUETTE. SINCE IT DID NOT SEEM TO BE TURNING AWAY AS FAST AS I THOUGHT IT MIGHT, AND SINCE ITS BEING IN A R TURN WOULD PUT US IN A DANGEROUS CONFLICT, I INSTRUCTED THE COPLT TO CONTINUE THE CLB AT THE BEST RATE. I LOST SIGHT OF THE FGT AT ABOUT OUR 11 O'CLOCK POS. AT THE TIME, THE FLT ATTENDANTS WERE IN THE AISLES, AND CHKING THE PAX FOR LNDG. I LATER RECEIVED A NUMBER OF COMMENTS ABOUT THE MANEUVER AND HOW DIFFICULT IT WAS FOR THEM TO HANG ON. FORTUNATELY, THE TRANSITION TO THE CLB WAS SUFFICIENTLY SMOOTH AND THE FLT ATTENDANT'S REACTIONS WERE GOOD ENOUGH THAT NO ONE WAS INJURED. I FEEL THAT WE WERE QUITE LUCKY IN THIS REGARD. WE STARTED THE MANEUVER AT ABOUT 3800 FT. AT THE TIME, I RPTED TO APCH CTL THAT WE WERE CLBING IN RESPONSE TO A TCASII RA. AT ABOUT 5400 FT, WHEN THE TCASII SAID 'CLR...,' I RPTED THIS TO APCH CTL. THEY THEN CLRED US FOR AN APCH. HOWEVER, I FELT THAT WE WERE TOO HIGH AND TOO CLOSE IN TO SAFELY EXECUTE AN APCH. AFTER I RPTED THIS TO APCH CTL, THEY GAVE US A VECTOR TO 170 DEGS FOR A MOMENT, THEN A TURN BACK TO 030 DEGS TO INTERCEPT THE LOC. TO ASSIST US, WE DROPPED THE GEAR AT ABOUT 5500 FT AND, CLRING THE CLOUDS AND INTERCEPTING THE LOC AT AROUND 3000 FT, I RPTED THE FIELD AND ACCEPTED A VISUAL APCH. UNFORTUNATELY, AS WE ENTERED BRIGHT SUNLIGHT AGAIN, THE COPLT LOST SIGHT OF THE RWY. IT WAS DIFFICULT, BUT, DUE TO MY GREATER FAMILIARITY WITH THE FIELD, I COULD MAKE OUT THE LNDG AREA. I INSTRUCTED THE COPLT TO FLY THE ILS UNTIL I HAD A BETTER VIEW OF THE RWY. AT ABOUT 1000 FT WE WERE FAIRLY WELL ESTABLISHED ON LOC AND GS, AND THE REST OF THE LNDG WAS UNEVENTFUL.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.