37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 237382 |
Time | |
Date | 199303 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : cvg |
State Reference | OH |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 27000 msl bound upper : 37000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zid |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 600 |
ASRS Report | 237382 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
During initial descent from altitude (FL370) controller stated 'expedite to FL270.' a short time later he questioned our rate of descent (2000 FPM). He then leveled us at FL310 and scolded us for insufficient rate of descent. Although our rate probably could have been greater, it is not easy to quickly get a large rate of descent when the aircraft is near vmo at altitude, without a large change in power and engine temperatures. I feel the main problem is the term expedite. It is a vague term open to interpretation. A better method of control would be to cross a fix at a certain altitude or to be at an altitude within a certain time limit. I think 'expedite' should not be used since the only way a pilot can be assured he is complying with the controller's intent is to descend at an excessive rate.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ARTCC CTLR RE-ISSUED DSCNT ALT RESTRICTION AFTER AN LTT ACR ACFT HAD NOT DSNDED QUICKLY ENOUGH TO COMPLY WITH ORIGINAL ALT RESTRICTION.
Narrative: DURING INITIAL DSCNT FROM ALT (FL370) CTLR STATED 'EXPEDITE TO FL270.' A SHORT TIME LATER HE QUESTIONED OUR RATE OF DSCNT (2000 FPM). HE THEN LEVELED US AT FL310 AND SCOLDED US FOR INSUFFICIENT RATE OF DSCNT. ALTHOUGH OUR RATE PROBABLY COULD HAVE BEEN GREATER, IT IS NOT EASY TO QUICKLY GET A LARGE RATE OF DSCNT WHEN THE ACFT IS NEAR VMO AT ALT, WITHOUT A LARGE CHANGE IN PWR AND ENG TEMPS. I FEEL THE MAIN PROB IS THE TERM EXPEDITE. IT IS A VAGUE TERM OPEN TO INTERPRETATION. A BETTER METHOD OF CTL WOULD BE TO CROSS A FIX AT A CERTAIN ALT OR TO BE AT AN ALT WITHIN A CERTAIN TIME LIMIT. I THINK 'EXPEDITE' SHOULD NOT BE USED SINCE THE ONLY WAY A PLT CAN BE ASSURED HE IS COMPLYING WITH THE CTLR'S INTENT IS TO DSND AT AN EXCESSIVE RATE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.