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Cpr aircraft in air hold given descent clearance. TCASII and visual sighting of aircraft in hold below but controller still insisted on descent.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 237424 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199305 |
| Day | Fri |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : cdg |
| State Reference | FO |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 9400 msl bound upper : 10000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Mixed |
| Light | Dusk |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : cdg |
| Operator | general aviation : corporate |
| Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent other other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 9200 flight time type : 500 |
| ASRS Report | 237424 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 1000 vertical : 400 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
Light transport aircraft in hold at susin at 10000 ft. Charles de gaulle airport (cdg) approach gave us descent to 6000 ft and exit instructions. We had been in hold 10 min or so and noted aircraft above and below us in hold. TCASII showed aircraft etc. I started descent, watching aircraft below us in hold. TCASII gave us a TA with one aircraft. We watched thinking aircraft in hold would turn outbound. Did not look to us like it was going to happen -- TCASII gave RA -- 'reduce descent.' I held my altitude at 9400 ft, watching the 'other' aircraft on TCASII. Then RA 'climb,' which I did to 10000 ft. PNF advised approach controller who was very busy, we were climbing back to 10000 ft. He advised us there was no aircraft and descend now to 4000 ft. We watched TCASII and other aircraft was in view to PNF when he looked in the wing inspection mirror (rear view mirror on light transport). PNF advised approach of traffic below us. Controller again 'demanded' descent to 4000 ft. It appeared to us we were well ahead of conflicting traffic, so we descended as assigned. Descent, approach, landing all uneventful. I was uncomfortable with controller when we told him we had TCASII traffic (TA) and again when we had RA -- controller was not concerned of TCASII advisory. Glad we had TCASII -- glad we followed the RA.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CPR ACFT IN AIR HOLD GIVEN DSCNT CLRNC. TCASII AND VISUAL SIGHTING OF ACFT IN HOLD BELOW BUT CTLR STILL INSISTED ON DSCNT.
Narrative: LTT ACFT IN HOLD AT SUSIN AT 10000 FT. CHARLES DE GAULLE ARPT (CDG) APCH GAVE US DSCNT TO 6000 FT AND EXIT INSTRUCTIONS. WE HAD BEEN IN HOLD 10 MIN OR SO AND NOTED ACFT ABOVE AND BELOW US IN HOLD. TCASII SHOWED ACFT ETC. I STARTED DSCNT, WATCHING ACFT BELOW US IN HOLD. TCASII GAVE US A TA WITH ONE ACFT. WE WATCHED THINKING ACFT IN HOLD WOULD TURN OUTBOUND. DID NOT LOOK TO US LIKE IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN -- TCASII GAVE RA -- 'REDUCE DSCNT.' I HELD MY ALT AT 9400 FT, WATCHING THE 'OTHER' ACFT ON TCASII. THEN RA 'CLB,' WHICH I DID TO 10000 FT. PNF ADVISED APCH CTLR WHO WAS VERY BUSY, WE WERE CLBING BACK TO 10000 FT. HE ADVISED US THERE WAS NO ACFT AND DSND NOW TO 4000 FT. WE WATCHED TCASII AND OTHER ACFT WAS IN VIEW TO PNF WHEN HE LOOKED IN THE WING INSPECTION MIRROR (REAR VIEW MIRROR ON LTT). PNF ADVISED APCH OF TFC BELOW US. CTLR AGAIN 'DEMANDED' DSCNT TO 4000 FT. IT APPEARED TO US WE WERE WELL AHEAD OF CONFLICTING TFC, SO WE DSNDED AS ASSIGNED. DSCNT, APCH, LNDG ALL UNEVENTFUL. I WAS UNCOMFORTABLE WITH CTLR WHEN WE TOLD HIM WE HAD TCASII TFC (TA) AND AGAIN WHEN WE HAD RA -- CTLR WAS NOT CONCERNED OF TCASII ADVISORY. GLAD WE HAD TCASII -- GLAD WE FOLLOWED THE RA.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.