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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 261973 |
Time | |
Date | 199401 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dfw |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2700 msl bound upper : 2700 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : dfw |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 1700 |
ASRS Report | 261974 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 6000 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 261973 |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
On approach to ILS 18R in dfw high downwond at 11000 ft 21O KTS. Stepped down to 10, 9, 7000 ft and then told by approach it would be a short approach. Tailwind about 40 KTS on descent on downwind. After being turned to a 150 degree heading and descent to 4000 ft were cleared to intercept the localizer for runway 18R and asked to keep speed up to OM. Immediately thereafter flew through the localizer after getting a localizer capture on flight mode panel. Were then cleared for ILS 18R and descent to 2300 ft. Were IMC throughout the approach. After arming the ILS, flight director went to heading hold and vertical speed modes. At that time we were left of localizer and slowly correcting back at that time final approach monitor gave us 15 degree radial turn and reclred us for ILS 18R. Believe the dfw slam dunk approach which we do continually in VFR conditions gets controllers and pilots used to high speed unstable approachs which when IMC can lead to localizer overshoots. Also think the automated cockpit gets you used to using the computers for navigation with less reliance on raw data. Supplemental information from acn 261973: we armed the localizer and he then cleared us to 2300 ft. Aggressive descent and turns given by approach controller led to a high, fast, tight, final joining inside the marker, leading to an overshoot final in IMC. His thinking (I believe) was to get us down under the WX so we could shoot a visual approach. We did a complete a visual approach, but from between the runways. This maneuver would have worked great in visual conditions or possibly had the ceiling been higher.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FMC EQUIPPED ACFT HAS PROBS ON A 'SLAM DUNK' APCH INTO DFW.
Narrative: ON APCH TO ILS 18R IN DFW HIGH DOWNWOND AT 11000 FT 21O KTS. STEPPED DOWN TO 10, 9, 7000 FT AND THEN TOLD BY APCH IT WOULD BE A SHORT APCH. TAILWIND ABOUT 40 KTS ON DSCNT ON DOWNWIND. AFTER BEING TURNED TO A 150 DEG HDG AND DSCNT TO 4000 FT WERE CLRED TO INTERCEPT THE LOC FOR RWY 18R AND ASKED TO KEEP SPD UP TO OM. IMMEDIATELY THEREAFTER FLEW THROUGH THE LOC AFTER GETTING A LOC CAPTURE ON FLT MODE PANEL. WERE THEN CLRED FOR ILS 18R AND DSCNT TO 2300 FT. WERE IMC THROUGHOUT THE APCH. AFTER ARMING THE ILS, FLT DIRECTOR WENT TO HDG HOLD AND VERT SPD MODES. AT THAT TIME WE WERE L OF LOC AND SLOWLY CORRECTING BACK AT THAT TIME FINAL APCH MONITOR GAVE US 15 DEG RADIAL TURN AND RECLRED US FOR ILS 18R. BELIEVE THE DFW SLAM DUNK APCH WHICH WE DO CONTINUALLY IN VFR CONDITIONS GETS CTLRS AND PLTS USED TO HIGH SPD UNSTABLE APCHS WHICH WHEN IMC CAN LEAD TO LOC OVERSHOOTS. ALSO THINK THE AUTOMATED COCKPIT GETS YOU USED TO USING THE COMPUTERS FOR NAV WITH LESS RELIANCE ON RAW DATA. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 261973: WE ARMED THE LOC AND HE THEN CLRED US TO 2300 FT. AGGRESSIVE DSCNT AND TURNS GIVEN BY APCH CTLR LED TO A HIGH, FAST, TIGHT, FINAL JOINING INSIDE THE MARKER, LEADING TO AN OVERSHOOT FINAL IN IMC. HIS THINKING (I BELIEVE) WAS TO GET US DOWN UNDER THE WX SO WE COULD SHOOT A VISUAL APCH. WE DID A COMPLETE A VISUAL APCH, BUT FROM BTWN THE RWYS. THIS MANEUVER WOULD HAVE WORKED GREAT IN VISUAL CONDITIONS OR POSSIBLY HAD THE CEILING BEEN HIGHER.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.